5th gear noise increase
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 855
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From:
RE: 5th gear noise increase
ORIGINAL: jesserocket01
I finally got my new 07 heritage out for a bit longer ride Tuesday. I hadn't gone past 50 mph yet , I still was under 50 miles total on the motor. But i was up to 50 and I shifted to 5th and noticed a considerable difference in the sound ,from the motor ,it didn't sound bad ,but a little loud. When I shifted to 6th it was very quite and smooth ,it felt like I was idling practically. I heard before about someones bike having louder gear noise in some gears. is this normal?
I finally got my new 07 heritage out for a bit longer ride Tuesday. I hadn't gone past 50 mph yet , I still was under 50 miles total on the motor. But i was up to 50 and I shifted to 5th and noticed a considerable difference in the sound ,from the motor ,it didn't sound bad ,but a little loud. When I shifted to 6th it was very quite and smooth ,it felt like I was idling practically. I heard before about someones bike having louder gear noise in some gears. is this normal?
The shift points in the owners manual are conservative.
IMO 5th gear is 55mph of higher. Below 55 the whine definitely gets louder and you will hear lugging, ping, clatter, etc. I would say 57 on up the whine subsides.
Brake it in and at the 1000 or even earlier change to Red Line. Others like Amsoil. In time and with different oil the whine will be close to non existent.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: nj
RE: 5th gear noise increase
The bottom lines is this, 20k for a bike, make it right. If you choose not to at least stand behind it when it takes a @#$% on you. That is a true test of an "american company".Yes i understand,it is hard to even say it to yourself, HD will let you down. Yes you the loyal, dedicatedconsumer will once again take it in the wagon.
Cruiser
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: Rosemark, TN
RE: 5th gear noise increase
2500k on my 07 FXSTC and I don't hear any noticable noise in 5th, nor do I have any problems shifting into neutral or any other gear for that matter since I drove it off the showroom back in Dec. At 1k, I changed the tranny fluid out to Amsoil 75-90 syn. gear lube, and if anything, it's a bit smoother and quieter now than before the fluid change. No problems for me.
just my 2 cents which aint worth much
just my 2 cents which aint worth much
Stage I
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
RE: 5th gear noise increase
This is my first post. I have been a long time reader but I do not own a Harley. Hopefully this sad situation is about to change soon!!!! I have not owned a bike for thirty years and even then it was a small displacement dirt/road legal bike. I have done a great deal of research and have looked at a large number of motorcycles from different manufactures. The metrics have a great deal to offer in their large road bikes, especially Yamaha and the road bikes from BMW. I have also investigated Harley, my favorites being the Deluxe and FatBoy and in the Sporster line, the 1200C and Roadster. I am very concerned about the 5th gear tranny issue and theoil lines causing fires! My God people! These machines cost 20,000$ I know there is a warranty but I want and need a solid reliable bike. This will be a major purchase for me and the fulfillment of a dream. I am not a "wrench" and have no desire to become one. Harley owners love there bikes for many reasons and many express this through custom changes to the basic machine. I guess what I'm looking for is a reassuranceto my fears of paying a great deal of money for poor quality. Many companies in this country have reached the top in popularity and buyer support only to get greedy and cut quality to increase profit. I want a Harley, but I don't need a headache. I have not heard ofmany problems with the Sporster line. Any comments on this? Thanks for reading.
Walt
Walt
Cruiser
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: Rosemark, TN
RE: 5th gear noise increase
Walt, I put over 10K on a 1200C sporty and it never saw the inside of a HD service center or any other shop for that matter. I rode the chit out of it and it was solid as a rock until I traded in for my new 07 Softail. And after 2.5K since December on my softail, I've got no complaints on it as well.
This is not to say that other folks arent having issues with their bikes, but I've had 0.
These were my first 2 HD's and prior to that, I've owned at least one of nearly all the metric brands in my 30+ years of riding bikes. I'd not hesitate to buy another HD this afternoon if I was in the market for a new bike.
just my 2 cents, aint worth much...
This is not to say that other folks arent having issues with their bikes, but I've had 0.
These were my first 2 HD's and prior to that, I've owned at least one of nearly all the metric brands in my 30+ years of riding bikes. I'd not hesitate to buy another HD this afternoon if I was in the market for a new bike.
just my 2 cents, aint worth much...
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: NJ
RE: 5th gear noise increase
I just had the 1000 mile service done on my 07 Heritage. Switched over to synthetic. The 5th gear whine seems to have quited down a bit. As for the problem getting into N, I had that for the first 50-100 miles. Heck on the ride home I couldn't get it into N at a stop light at all, then had a heck of a time getting it into N to put the bike away. Since then, it's been fine.
RE: 5th gear noise increase
I also have the 5th gear noise, not really all that...once kicked into 6th, she's smooth, will be getting first service done in the next few weeks, going to try the synthetic in the tranny, see how it does. As for N, its a fine line between 1st & 2nd, I have to play around sometimes....kinda like the scoot wants foreplay......lol
Ride Safe People....OLH
Ride Safe People....OLH
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
RE: 5th gear noise increase
Guys, I think we may be getting a little testy and over analyzing a nonexistent problem.
So it makes noise in one gear, big deal. Has anyone been able to definitely point to it as being the cause of a single failure.
Can is be caused by a design quirk, very possibly. If what I have found out is correct 5th gear is different.
Unlike the rest it uses straight cut teeth instead of the helical cut teeth the rest of them have.
Straight cut teeth make noise, it’s an indisputable fact of life. They always have, and always will to one degree or another.
It can be mitigated somewhat by the use of insulation, not too practical. Thicker or more rigid case wall materials, again not terribly practical as it will make the bike heavier or the tranny bigger, or use better lubricants. Now that’s something we can do for ourselves.
Remember a tranny is a collection of compromises, the size, its gotta fit in the frame. The weight, the dumb thing can’t be made too heavy for the engine to turn it. But most important of all from a manufacturing standpoint is that it has to be COST EFFECTIVE. By that I mean the MoCo has to make and assemble a unit that will survive the anticipated stresses a factory engine is going to give it for the design lifespan of the bike, with the least amount of expected service, and they have to do all of that for a reasonable cost.
Anyone expecting them to make a tranny that’s the equivalent of a big Swiss watch is fooling themselves, it doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to work. That they do and have done so for one hell of a lot of years is a testament to the engineers success in that regard. Sure they are always trying to cut a corner here and there. Its their job to minimize production and warranty service maintenance costs while still fulfilling the “prime directive”, its gotta work.
Baker and other aftermarket makers are constrained by the same “prime directive” and overall design criteria. Like weight, size, and shape limitations. But unlike the MoCo they are also making their boxes for people who for the most part have the money to spare and are also likely to use their box behind an engine that far exceeds the stock engines output capacity. So they have much greater latitude in the area of end product cost. They can AFFORD to make a slicker box.
So in summery I say if it makes noise, so be it. I didn’t buy an electric golf cart, I bought a Harley. If it breaks, me and the service department are gonna have words. But as long as it fulfills its “prime directive” I can live with the little quirks, and an odd noise in 5th is defiantly a little quirk in my book.
So it makes noise in one gear, big deal. Has anyone been able to definitely point to it as being the cause of a single failure.
Can is be caused by a design quirk, very possibly. If what I have found out is correct 5th gear is different.
Unlike the rest it uses straight cut teeth instead of the helical cut teeth the rest of them have.
Straight cut teeth make noise, it’s an indisputable fact of life. They always have, and always will to one degree or another.
It can be mitigated somewhat by the use of insulation, not too practical. Thicker or more rigid case wall materials, again not terribly practical as it will make the bike heavier or the tranny bigger, or use better lubricants. Now that’s something we can do for ourselves.
Remember a tranny is a collection of compromises, the size, its gotta fit in the frame. The weight, the dumb thing can’t be made too heavy for the engine to turn it. But most important of all from a manufacturing standpoint is that it has to be COST EFFECTIVE. By that I mean the MoCo has to make and assemble a unit that will survive the anticipated stresses a factory engine is going to give it for the design lifespan of the bike, with the least amount of expected service, and they have to do all of that for a reasonable cost.
Anyone expecting them to make a tranny that’s the equivalent of a big Swiss watch is fooling themselves, it doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to work. That they do and have done so for one hell of a lot of years is a testament to the engineers success in that regard. Sure they are always trying to cut a corner here and there. Its their job to minimize production and warranty service maintenance costs while still fulfilling the “prime directive”, its gotta work.
Baker and other aftermarket makers are constrained by the same “prime directive” and overall design criteria. Like weight, size, and shape limitations. But unlike the MoCo they are also making their boxes for people who for the most part have the money to spare and are also likely to use their box behind an engine that far exceeds the stock engines output capacity. So they have much greater latitude in the area of end product cost. They can AFFORD to make a slicker box.
So in summery I say if it makes noise, so be it. I didn’t buy an electric golf cart, I bought a Harley. If it breaks, me and the service department are gonna have words. But as long as it fulfills its “prime directive” I can live with the little quirks, and an odd noise in 5th is defiantly a little quirk in my book.
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 559
Likes: 51
From: maine
RE: 5th gear noise increase
Citoriplus........with all due respect, it's attitudes like yours that are going to allow manufacturers to keep dumbing down the quality of their product in the name of profits because they can find dummies that will line up a still buy the crap.
You are correct... 5th gear in the '07 box is a straight cut gear..... in all of transmissiondom a straight cut gear in an upper gear, (not 1st or 2nd), is a most unusual application..... my '03 gear box isn't made like that??????? Guess what HD answer is as to why the puzzling choice???? BECAUSE helical cut gears cause a certain amount of side thrust to be created by the shaft and the freakin' cheapbearing doorcouldn't take the load!!! (this is why your clutch lever dances around.....your tranny shaft is actually bumpinginto your clutch!)So how does Baker get away with a helical cut 5th gear????? Pretty simple... they REVERSED the direction of the cut to transfer the load AWAY from the door AND made the new bearing door from a piece of billet! Pretty simple...heh???? Don't you wonder how 100+ years of tradition missed this one?
The Baker "Factory Six Fix" , (lol..I love that name), is working well beyondany expectationsin my brother's scoot and I am going to do a friend's FatBoy this week.... I bet I can do this one in half the time.
I love my Harley's... always will and HD will survive this when all these '07 boxes start grenading out there. This is not the first time I have had to deal with "quirks", but this one really has me pissed 'cause it was so easily forseeable and avoidable. I would expect an acne ridden first year high school autoshopper to have been able to catch this one! I put it right up there with $600 "American Heritage" HD leather jackets made in freakin' China...can't get me to buy them and I'll NEVER buy an '07.
You are correct... 5th gear in the '07 box is a straight cut gear..... in all of transmissiondom a straight cut gear in an upper gear, (not 1st or 2nd), is a most unusual application..... my '03 gear box isn't made like that??????? Guess what HD answer is as to why the puzzling choice???? BECAUSE helical cut gears cause a certain amount of side thrust to be created by the shaft and the freakin' cheapbearing doorcouldn't take the load!!! (this is why your clutch lever dances around.....your tranny shaft is actually bumpinginto your clutch!)So how does Baker get away with a helical cut 5th gear????? Pretty simple... they REVERSED the direction of the cut to transfer the load AWAY from the door AND made the new bearing door from a piece of billet! Pretty simple...heh???? Don't you wonder how 100+ years of tradition missed this one?
The Baker "Factory Six Fix" , (lol..I love that name), is working well beyondany expectationsin my brother's scoot and I am going to do a friend's FatBoy this week.... I bet I can do this one in half the time.
I love my Harley's... always will and HD will survive this when all these '07 boxes start grenading out there. This is not the first time I have had to deal with "quirks", but this one really has me pissed 'cause it was so easily forseeable and avoidable. I would expect an acne ridden first year high school autoshopper to have been able to catch this one! I put it right up there with $600 "American Heritage" HD leather jackets made in freakin' China...can't get me to buy them and I'll NEVER buy an '07.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
RE: 5th gear noise increase
I have had an 07 FXSTC since Nov 06 with 3500km and and have absolutely no problems with anything on the bike. This bike has been ridden in the Australian summer where temps. are on average 30+ plus degrees and not unusally 38C (100F) most days. I have had no problems with engaging neutral at any time. No problems with the clutch lever. It has a slight whine in 5th gear. I am a mechanic by trade and it is normal for straight cut gears to whine and nothing to worry about.
I suspectH-Dused a straight cut gear on 5th and a helical on 6th as they probably expected riders would spend more time in 5th and 6th would be an overdrive. It is not unusual for automotive manufacturers to use circlips and plastic bushings in transmissions - it has been done for years and is generally reliable in normal use.
All manufacturers can at times have reliability / designissues that effect their products. Even the best and industry leaders have recalls. In fact, it is the service you get from the manufacturer after a problem (if there is a problem)is found I believe is the realissue. I will gladly deal with a company that is prepared to stand behind its product and recall to fix any problems.
For your info; In Australia H-D has had a 40% increase in sales of the 07 models from the 06 and our bikes cost on average of $30K AUD.
Anyway, my 2cents.
shep.
I suspectH-Dused a straight cut gear on 5th and a helical on 6th as they probably expected riders would spend more time in 5th and 6th would be an overdrive. It is not unusual for automotive manufacturers to use circlips and plastic bushings in transmissions - it has been done for years and is generally reliable in normal use.
All manufacturers can at times have reliability / designissues that effect their products. Even the best and industry leaders have recalls. In fact, it is the service you get from the manufacturer after a problem (if there is a problem)is found I believe is the realissue. I will gladly deal with a company that is prepared to stand behind its product and recall to fix any problems.
For your info; In Australia H-D has had a 40% increase in sales of the 07 models from the 06 and our bikes cost on average of $30K AUD.
Anyway, my 2cents.
shep.