Transmission problem for evo sportster common?.
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Tourer
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From: England
Transmission problem for evo sportster common?.
Is it just me or does this transmission problem that I am having with my 2001 Sportster seem to effect a lot of sportsters?.
Speaking to someone who owns 2 of his own said his youngest boy isn't riding his sportster which is a 1996 Evo has the same problem as mine, with regards to the jumping 1st gear.
Basically there's no set pattern but it happens often when.
1. The bike is cold.
2. Right at the end of the clutch after you engage into first.
3. Or just happens when you pull away hard in 1st.
I found moving it into second and back to first a couple of times helps.
Its made me really curious now, that I am going to buy a second hand transmission and take out mine and see how to fix the problem permanently.
Speaking to someone who owns 2 of his own said his youngest boy isn't riding his sportster which is a 1996 Evo has the same problem as mine, with regards to the jumping 1st gear.
Basically there's no set pattern but it happens often when.
1. The bike is cold.
2. Right at the end of the clutch after you engage into first.
3. Or just happens when you pull away hard in 1st.
I found moving it into second and back to first a couple of times helps.
Its made me really curious now, that I am going to buy a second hand transmission and take out mine and see how to fix the problem permanently.
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It won't go into first? Or, it jumps out of first when you engage the clutch?
Jumping out could be worn dogs on one of the gears, or your detent plate is loose because of the POS horsehoe clip they use. Not going into first, maybe shifter adjustment? Remember, your clutch plates tend to stick when cold, so that might affect your first gear selection. Often there is more of a "clunk" sound when bike is cold and you first downshift into gear, but it goes away quickly as engine warms.
I have a 25 year old Sportster and have not had any transmission issues. The Sportster transmission is an extremely reliable and strong unit.
John
Jumping out could be worn dogs on one of the gears, or your detent plate is loose because of the POS horsehoe clip they use. Not going into first, maybe shifter adjustment? Remember, your clutch plates tend to stick when cold, so that might affect your first gear selection. Often there is more of a "clunk" sound when bike is cold and you first downshift into gear, but it goes away quickly as engine warms.
I have a 25 year old Sportster and have not had any transmission issues. The Sportster transmission is an extremely reliable and strong unit.
John
Last edited by John Harper; May 11, 2016 at 05:58 PM.
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John is steering you right. Could be any of those things.
If it's a momentary hop-out while accelerating, the dogs are the common reason. It's not that unusual for these to wear and cause that symptom, especially in first gear. It's also not particularly difficult or expensive to fix. Get a service manual if you don't already have one.
Here, let me cross post something I posted on another forum once. I'd just give you a link but I want to stay on the right side of the rules here:
Once the corners of the dogs wear like this, you get momentary hop-out problems when accelerating. Feels like you pulled in the clutch and let it out real quick. Is that what's happening?
Here's the power flow through the trans in first:
The power comes in through the mainshaft (upper left), goes into the 1st mainshaft gear (which is splined to the mainshaft), flows to the 1st countershaft gear (which floats on the countershaft). 1st counter is engaged via dogs with 3rd counter, and 3rd counter is splined to the countershaft. The power then flows out 5th counter and main to the final drive pulley.
So the dogs that are involved when you're in 1st gear are the ones on the 1st counter and the 3rd counter gears. Those are probably the gears that need to be replaced, assuming the issue is momentary hop-out.
Here's the big picture for the trans:
1st counter is number 8 and it's part number is 35763-89A
3rd counter is number 10 and it's part number is 35771-94
Check me on those part numbers to be sure.
Safest thing to do would be to pull it apart and verify those dogs are worn before buying new gears. But if you're dealing with momentary hop out, this is the common cause.
If it's a momentary hop-out while accelerating, the dogs are the common reason. It's not that unusual for these to wear and cause that symptom, especially in first gear. It's also not particularly difficult or expensive to fix. Get a service manual if you don't already have one.
Here, let me cross post something I posted on another forum once. I'd just give you a link but I want to stay on the right side of the rules here:
Once the corners of the dogs wear like this, you get momentary hop-out problems when accelerating. Feels like you pulled in the clutch and let it out real quick. Is that what's happening?
Here's the power flow through the trans in first:
The power comes in through the mainshaft (upper left), goes into the 1st mainshaft gear (which is splined to the mainshaft), flows to the 1st countershaft gear (which floats on the countershaft). 1st counter is engaged via dogs with 3rd counter, and 3rd counter is splined to the countershaft. The power then flows out 5th counter and main to the final drive pulley.
So the dogs that are involved when you're in 1st gear are the ones on the 1st counter and the 3rd counter gears. Those are probably the gears that need to be replaced, assuming the issue is momentary hop-out.
Here's the big picture for the trans:
1st counter is number 8 and it's part number is 35763-89A
3rd counter is number 10 and it's part number is 35771-94
Check me on those part numbers to be sure.
Safest thing to do would be to pull it apart and verify those dogs are worn before buying new gears. But if you're dealing with momentary hop out, this is the common cause.
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: England
I have posted about this before, but since then I have read some other posts with people having the same issue, it always seem to be first gear which I assume gets the most abuse. And after talking to my friend who has owned sporters for over 40 years he says his son's does it.
Is there parts which will solve the problem other than sticking Harley parts back in? for it to happen again later. Is there any upgrades?.
As I said I know its an expensive way of doing it but I want to pull the old one and stick a second hand one in or possibly rebuid the second hand one checking it over before putting it back in, I don't want the sportster off the road, it was off the road for 8 months as it was ( have second bike ).
And yes the momentary out of gear is what I am experiencing
Is there parts which will solve the problem other than sticking Harley parts back in? for it to happen again later. Is there any upgrades?.
As I said I know its an expensive way of doing it but I want to pull the old one and stick a second hand one in or possibly rebuid the second hand one checking it over before putting it back in, I don't want the sportster off the road, it was off the road for 8 months as it was ( have second bike ).
And yes the momentary out of gear is what I am experiencing
Last edited by TheGit12; May 12, 2016 at 02:29 AM.
Club Member
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From: Bedford UK
I suspect you'll have difficulty finding a secondhand replacement gear - Harleys are seldom stripped and sold in bits over here! Is it common; no. Are there better parts available; doesn't really matter to be blunt, the likelyhood of it repeating is very rare. Your bike is 15 years old and unless you have owned it from new there is no knowing how previous owners have treated it.
You can see from aswracing's photos how little wear there is, except to the tips of the engagement dogs - that is a very robust component! I heartily recommend stripping and replacing the essential parts. There is no quick way of doing that, as until it's apart there is no certainty what new components you will need for a rebuild.
You can see from aswracing's photos how little wear there is, except to the tips of the engagement dogs - that is a very robust component! I heartily recommend stripping and replacing the essential parts. There is no quick way of doing that, as until it's apart there is no certainty what new components you will need for a rebuild.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: England
I have already sourced a complete transmission from America, this is what I am going to shove into the sportster to keep it running.
I will be going over the old one, just wanted to know if its up gradable or anything.
I will be going over the old one, just wanted to know if its up gradable or anything.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
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From: Bedford UK
I'm not aware of any alternative transmission upgrades.
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@John Harper
Not to derail or hijack a thread, but what causes the "clunk" noise, and why does it go away when warm? My bike makes the "clunk" almost all the time.
Not to derail or hijack a thread, but what causes the "clunk" noise, and why does it go away when warm? My bike makes the "clunk" almost all the time.
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Bedford UK
John touched on that in his post. Overnight, say, the clutch plates stick together, thanks to the primary oil. When starting the engine, the clutch is not disturbed, so when engaging first gear for the first time, on a cold engine, the clutch plates are reluctant to get out of bed and free themselves from each other. Clunk!
With the clutch lever pulled in, one set of the clutch plates are whizzing around with the engine, rudely awakened, while the others are still stationary, until the bike starts moving. Dashed unfair and shouldn't happen to a slumbering clutch, but that's life. As the engine and transmission oils warm up, along with the rest of the engine, they become more fluid and less sticky, so everything gets up to their optimum operating temperature and functions smoothly. Until the next time.
Hope that helps!
With the clutch lever pulled in, one set of the clutch plates are whizzing around with the engine, rudely awakened, while the others are still stationary, until the bike starts moving. Dashed unfair and shouldn't happen to a slumbering clutch, but that's life. As the engine and transmission oils warm up, along with the rest of the engine, they become more fluid and less sticky, so everything gets up to their optimum operating temperature and functions smoothly. Until the next time.
Hope that helps!
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: England
If that's whats happening then its not your clutch plates sticking, I have changed my clutch plates and even changed them with the extra steel and fibre mod and its still doing it.
Mine tends to do it a lot when its cold but not so much when its warmed up and if you work it back and fourth between 1st and 2nd before you set of cold you have less chance of it doing it.
