air cleaner thoughts..
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Hartford, WI
It is the prevailing thought that if you change your A/C setup to higher flowing, but leave the exhaust stock, then the ECM can adjust for the difference.
If you change your A/C AND exhaust to higher flow then some sort of tune/fuel management/calibration is needed because the ECM cannot adjust for that much change.
I agree generally with that...however, I think that stock is too lean even if you don't change a thing.
I am running a free flowing exhaust and A/C and am using the X14ied's. Would a tune be better...yeah, but it is running pretty good as it is.
Good questions on which has the best air flow.
I think the only real way to know is to use the same bike, the same day, same dyno and just do a pull on the Dyno with each one right in a row. Could get sort of expensive.
In January we are going to be publishing some Dyno pulls using our HiFlow 587 A/C and Thunder Torques compared with the stock set up.
If you change your A/C AND exhaust to higher flow then some sort of tune/fuel management/calibration is needed because the ECM cannot adjust for that much change.
I agree generally with that...however, I think that stock is too lean even if you don't change a thing.
I am running a free flowing exhaust and A/C and am using the X14ied's. Would a tune be better...yeah, but it is running pretty good as it is.
Good questions on which has the best air flow.
I think the only real way to know is to use the same bike, the same day, same dyno and just do a pull on the Dyno with each one right in a row. Could get sort of expensive.
In January we are going to be publishing some Dyno pulls using our HiFlow 587 A/C and Thunder Torques compared with the stock set up.
When I change my exhaust, I think I will buy the SERT and have it dyno tuned. Would the dealership or whoever is doing it be mandated to keep the AFR at stock levels or could they get away with a little richer settings? What is the preferred AFR? I personally don't believe in the X14ied which, from what I am seeing makes the change across the board. I prefer to get it done right with a dyno tune. In my car, I don't advance timing by distributor. I prefer it done by setting it stock and have the tuner adjust it where he feels it is needed via the ECM.
If you are going to do the dyno run, would you bedoing the AC and TT at the same time or separately?
TIA
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 8
From: Milwaukee, WI
What about if you change the exhaust to say a 2 to 1 and the rest stock?
When I change my exhaust, I think I will buy the SERT and have it dyno tuned. Would the dealership or whoever is doing it be mandated to keep the AFR at stock levels or could they get away with a little richer settings? What is the preferred AFR? I personally don't believe in the X14ied which, from what I am seeing makes the change across the board. I prefer to get it done right with a dyno tune. In my car, I don't advance timing by distributor. I prefer it done by setting it stock and have the tuner adjust it where he feels it is needed via the ECM.
If you are going to do the dyno run, would you bedoing the AC and TT at the same time or separately?
TIA
When I change my exhaust, I think I will buy the SERT and have it dyno tuned. Would the dealership or whoever is doing it be mandated to keep the AFR at stock levels or could they get away with a little richer settings? What is the preferred AFR? I personally don't believe in the X14ied which, from what I am seeing makes the change across the board. I prefer to get it done right with a dyno tune. In my car, I don't advance timing by distributor. I prefer it done by setting it stock and have the tuner adjust it where he feels it is needed via the ECM.
If you are going to do the dyno run, would you bedoing the AC and TT at the same time or separately?
TIA
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Hartford, WI
If you change the exhaust OR A/C, you do not need any sort of tuner. If you do both, you will need some sort of tuner. If you have $400 or $500 to drop on the SERT or some other tuner, go for it. I run the X14 along with many others and we have great results for only $100. I believe the stock AFR from HD is 14.6:1. If you get the SERT they will maintain that same ratio if you take it to HD. You can thank the EPA for that. As far as preferred, 14.0 seems to be a good level, hence the X14's. Even 13.8 can be good too, which can be achieved with the ViED.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 8
From: Milwaukee, WI
Thing is that if you ever decide to go further, and I know I will, the SERT will be useful. Can HD be asked to change the AFR to 14.0 or will I have to take it elsewhere? In a car, by law you cannot simply remove a cat but I wonder if this can be overlooked? If it is a law, would an aftermarket dealer be also forced to do it? Just curious.
HD will only tune the AFR to 14.6, no way around that. Might be better off getting another tuner that you can actually program yourself to make the bike run more rich. I am not very familiar with the SERT, but I am not even sure if you took it else where if someone else could program it, or if it is set up so that on a HD dealer can use the SERT.
Many folks on here will recommend getting the Fuelpak, Power Commander 5, or using X14/ViED. Hopefully some people who use those tuners can chime in. I run the stock A/C and Rush slip-ons, and ran without any fuel management for 2 years. Bike ran good in my eyes. I added X14iED's and it was like night and day. I am going to upgrade to the ViED's for next season.
What about if you change the exhaust to say a 2 to 1 and the rest stock? If you are not changing to a free flowing A/C the ECM should be able to keep it right about at the factory lean settings.
When I change my exhaust, I think I will buy the SERT and have it dyno tuned. Would the dealership or whoever is doing it be mandated to keep the AFR at stock levels or could they get away with a little richer settings? What is the preferred AFR? I personally don't believe in the X14ied which, from what I am seeing makes the change across the board. I prefer to get it done right with a dyno tune. In my car, I don't advance timing by distributor. I prefer it done by setting it stock and have the tuner adjust it where he feels it is needed via the ECM.
There is no doubt that a tuner is the Ideal way to go.
It varies from dealer to dealer on whether they will richen it up to where it should be. I have not heard of a Indie that would not put it where it will run best. Before getting a SERT I would look at the TTS or Power Vision. IMHO they are both better than the SERT and you can tune the bike yourself without having to spend any time on a dyno.
If you are going to do the dyno run, would you bedoing the AC and TT at the same time or separately?
Yes, we will be showing charts of the A/C without the TT and the TT without the A/C and then both together. That way it is easy to see what each individual component adds to the powerband.
TIA
When I change my exhaust, I think I will buy the SERT and have it dyno tuned. Would the dealership or whoever is doing it be mandated to keep the AFR at stock levels or could they get away with a little richer settings? What is the preferred AFR? I personally don't believe in the X14ied which, from what I am seeing makes the change across the board. I prefer to get it done right with a dyno tune. In my car, I don't advance timing by distributor. I prefer it done by setting it stock and have the tuner adjust it where he feels it is needed via the ECM.
There is no doubt that a tuner is the Ideal way to go.
It varies from dealer to dealer on whether they will richen it up to where it should be. I have not heard of a Indie that would not put it where it will run best. Before getting a SERT I would look at the TTS or Power Vision. IMHO they are both better than the SERT and you can tune the bike yourself without having to spend any time on a dyno.
If you are going to do the dyno run, would you bedoing the AC and TT at the same time or separately?
Yes, we will be showing charts of the A/C without the TT and the TT without the A/C and then both together. That way it is easy to see what each individual component adds to the powerband.
TIA
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Last edited by DK Custom; Dec 17, 2011 at 06:27 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Hartford, WI
Further as how? If you're just doing a new AC and pipes, X14 or ViED would be fine. Plenty of people on here use it for that set up. If you are doing more intense engine work, then a tuner would be good. But hey, if you have all that money laying around, then use it on a tuner, I'd rather spend it on shinny chrome.
HD will only tune the AFR to 14.6, no way around that. Might be better off getting another tuner that you can actually program yourself to make the bike run more rich. I am not very familiar with the SERT, but I am not even sure if you took it else where if someone else could program it, or if it is set up so that on a HD dealer can use the SERT.
Many folks on here will recommend getting the Fuelpak, Power Commander 5, or using X14/ViED. Hopefully some people who use those tuners can chime in. I run the stock A/C and Rush slip-ons, and ran without any fuel management for 2 years. Bike ran good in my eyes. I added X14iED's and it was like night and day. I am going to upgrade to the ViED's for next season.
HD will only tune the AFR to 14.6, no way around that. Might be better off getting another tuner that you can actually program yourself to make the bike run more rich. I am not very familiar with the SERT, but I am not even sure if you took it else where if someone else could program it, or if it is set up so that on a HD dealer can use the SERT.
Many folks on here will recommend getting the Fuelpak, Power Commander 5, or using X14/ViED. Hopefully some people who use those tuners can chime in. I run the stock A/C and Rush slip-ons, and ran without any fuel management for 2 years. Bike ran good in my eyes. I added X14iED's and it was like night and day. I am going to upgrade to the ViED's for next season.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 8
From: Milwaukee, WI
Then I think it is time for you to decide what tuner you are going to get. Now before you jump right in with the SERT, look around at some of the other options available for tuners. Good luck and Ride Safe!
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 30
From: Maryland near DC
can I put a ss cover on a stock hd carb...and if I can how do I work the backing plate change out...
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