looking at the screaming eagles heads for the 04-06 sporties. they advertise an increased compression ratio (10.5) and beehive springs but they dont say anything about being ported or oversize valves. Does anybody know if they do have these features???
I found a place to get them quite discounted (still new) and wondering if i am wasting my time in the quest for more power.
this is looking to be hopefully a temporary fix for my power obsession till i can afford an 88" kit. (with custom porting of original heads)

or has anybody installed these and can tell how much of an increase they got?

 

You got a link? I didn't think HD was making SE heads for 04-06. I'd like to see them.

 

NRHS said that the SE heads for rubbermounts are a poor choice as the stock 1200 heads are better. Don't waste your time or money getting SE heads for your 2004+ bike.

 

1200c- are you refering to the heads for the 03 earlier models or the "new" heads for the 04-06?

I understood that the stock headshave muchbetter potential for mods. part of my plan was to take the old heads and have NHRS stage 3 work done in conjuction with the 88" (or 1250) depending on money- over a period of time ( heads, then cams, then juggs and pistons). as well as other hi performance stuff in conjunction (roller rockers/ Redshifts 567/ tappets/ tapered pushrods/ etc etc) And i cant afford everything in one shot or justify the labor cost with some of the stuff installed piece-meal as well. I dont want to install the NHRS in parts I want it done in one shot, tuned and ready to go for awhile. i dont want the downtime and would like to have a little more ummmph than what i have now.

comes down to money, and if i can get the SE heads for 300$ less then MSRP and have it installedjust wondering if it is a descent boost in performance to get me but in the short term and free up my stock heads for porting by NRHS.

I was looking at the stage one NRHS (revperf and zippers kits as well ) although seems like a good deal for ok improvement, but all these require down time as well and my riding time is limited. and i dont want to limit my future options...

I am currently getting about 80 HP out of it now (according to last dyno) but only running about 72 ftlbs of peak torque. if between a new 2-1 pipe and these SE heads (increased compression) i can pick up 10-12% across the board i will be less of a freak until i can get the good stuff done

so back to my original question ...


p.s.

XLOCD- I havent found a link anywhere for the 04-07 heads, all HD lists is the 03 and earlier heads. I found them in the 06 and 07 SE catalogs. i listed below the link to download the catalog,but all they say in there (07 catalog at least) is increased compression with stockpistons due to a 55 cc combustion chamber and beehive springs.they dont even list them in the regular HD catalog. allthough i thought that in the 06 catalog they listed a 13% increase in flow through the ports with larger valves. of course i cant find that catalog anymore. the HD part number is 16677-05.


http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/c...565!-144640152

 

Here is what NRHS says about them:

LATEST SE HEAD: These heads use the same casting as 04-up XL1200R/C heads. The ports and valve sizes remain unchanged, and the flow rates are identical.

An additional .050" additional has been removed from the decks, which makes them .070 shorter than 86-03 XL heads. This provides a 55cc chamber and 10.5:1 when used with flat tops. However, the decking is not without side effects; in particular, short pushrods will likely be needed (available from NRHS) and valve to piston clearance will become a concern when using cams with more than stock overlap.

Also, these heads have different springs and valves. The valves are the same size, 1.810" intake/1.575" exhaust, but are made of stainless steel. The spring is a larger beehive with about 170lbs on the seat, versus about 135 for the stock head, and the spring pocket has been cut down about .120 to allow more spring travel. This lowering of the seat pocket makes the roof of the port thinner and limits how much it can be raised when the head is ported.

All of these heads are black with polished fins. A "Screamin Eagle" script has been fastened to the front head in the area just above the pushrod tubes.

They say the heads have the same port sizes and flow the same as the stock 1200 heads. All you would gain is a bump in compression from 9.7:1 to 10.5:1. Usually you will get a 3% power increase for each point in compression. The difference is about 0.8 so a little less than a point. With 80 hp a 3% increase would give you a whoping 2.4 hp.

Considering you need to get a shorter set of pushrods with those heads, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

1200c...that was exactly the answer i was looking for...thank you.

just as an experiment i called six different dealerships in texas colorado and wyoming today. and asked the porting and valve questions.....got six different answers. literally. everything from ported, polished with oversize valves to larger valves with no porting, to ported (but not polished)with same size valves.and one....let me re-port your heads. one of the guys (this was service dept) told me that it wasnt decked....

where did you find that from NRHS...i though i had read everything on that site

since you seem up to par on this type of info...NRHS talks about the machining in a squish band for thunderstorm type pistons....if i had them stage 2 with the squish band will that be compatible with stock pistons? until i can get the 1250 kit?

thanks again

 

Ya, good luck trying to sort through all that. Every porter does things their own way, but whether the result will turn out as intended is a gamble. Some of information you get applies to older solidmount bikes, but not the rubbermount bikes. The rubbermounts have a new set of rules for some things.

They post some information that isn't on their website. Here is where I got it from:

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...ad.php?t=14000

The XL Forum is one place they publish several pieces of technical information. Another place is the bad weather biker's forum (buell).

You will be able to run your stock flat top pistons with your ported heads that have a 10/15/20/30 degree squish band angle, but it won't be effective. Essentially, it will be a waste of a squish band until you get a matched set of pistons.

Here is a quote off the NRHS website related to your question:

So YES you can run it like that if you want to do things in stages, but it's not the optimal solution. Give NRHS a call as they are better suited to answer your questions than I am. They are usually nice and very helpful (although I have no problem doing it if you prefer my answer).

Also, I notice that you are trying to build your motor in stages. I hope you are aware that building a motor in stages gets to be more expensive than just gathering all the parts and building it at once. NRHS has a payment plan if you want to build your motor all at once, but can't afford to pay for it all right away.

By the way, you said you had 80hp/72 tq. Did you pull that off with the stock cams or do you have another set of cams in there?

Oh ya, here is more information on the SE heads. There is picture of the chamber on page 2:
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...ad.php?t=11769

 

I work heads everyday, I can tell ya. You want to stay with your stock heads. Id have them ported and maybe "SLIGHTLY" larger valves. Not the biggest you can fit in there. Valves that are too big slow the port velocity down and turns your bike into a dog at lowwer RPM's. The 567 cams are a good choice for hot street. If it were me id use 1.840 intake valve and 1.600 ex valves. All my twin cam heads im doing now Only run a 1.900 in. and 1.600 ex. and there for 103 ci. So dont get all hung up on big bigger and the biggest is better.

 

1200c

the porting question was just if those SE heads were, out of the box....

my intention was to do it all in one shot. it is taking alot of time do to unforseen circumstances. so i was looking for a lesser alternative just to give some improvement for the time being...i have already done alot of other things....(yes it is cam'd...SE .551).
hoping for something to give me a little more across the whole spectrum...figured between heads and a pipe (2into1)..it would work. But i know better then to use just any so called "porter" on mine....if they really have a payment program....i might havebetter option.

was talking today with someone who reccomendedputting some thunderstorm heads on in the meantime....the price was unbeatable...

thoughts on those heads in comparison to the stock 04-06 heads???

dirtrace95....I understand the theory behind all that, just looking for something where it doesnt feel like my engine is starving for air in higher gears while winding it out, and i dont trust 90% of the people who claim to be performance buffs or mechanics for V-twins. was hoping SE actually did a worth a damn job in making something that will perform.


rule of thumb for carb jetting (non CV's) ...is it a jet size for every three thousand feet (roughly)???

 

I agree with you when you say that you need to take all v-twin buff's and people claiming to be mech's with a grain of salt.Asaying i have is " You have to eat all the meat and spit out the bones" But.... Some of us are the" real deal " and have been building H-D's for many years. Some of us have in house dyno's and flow bench's and lots of machine shop equipment
and have years of expierence using it all. Some of us are not just "any ol porter" We no what works.So when we atempt to help steer fellow Harley riders ingood direction.... It is usauly just that.... A good direction. So dont condim all of us as wanna-be's. Some of us really want to help with good info so you guys will spend your hard earned $$$ one time with good results.Not trying to ruffle any feathers here just trying to help you guys out.