While I'm/we're waiting for you to pinpoint the bad data and the fix data by circling the referenced data so we all can follow along, mind sharing how you come to judge "roller tuners"?
How many Harley motorcycle dyno tuners do you have actual experience with on a roller? You know, watched over their shoulder to what procedures they used to tune a Harley.
How many roller tuners send you their data for your examination and input?
Just wonder how you make your determinations of tune quality from roller tuners...unless of course they all send you their recordings for you to determine your opinion?
Still waiting.....
Bob

 

FLTRI17, Here is a really bad tune that a guy sent me. Do I need to highlight the Red and Blue areas? The owner may chine in.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Bad%20Tune.png

Andy

 

Oops wrong thread lol

 

Not an all out war thank goodness :-) I'm just trying to learn more, I'm soaking it all in. Lots of good info in these forums, we're fortunate to have so many who are willing to help out the new folk.

 

Jonnie.

I don't think I implied any fraud? Where exactly did I do that? I asked some questions concerning a comparison of the AT-TT product to the AT basic results concerning mapping VE tables.

I don't understand it, that is the reason I asked the questions that I did. If you understand it so well, perhaps you could explain it to me? If you have data that you could post up showing the difference between the AT-TT and the AT basic, that would be great.

I won't hold my breath waiting on your response. Your'e just another blow hard stirring the **** without being able to add any supporting data.

 

Jonnie,

Convince me why anyone needs it (TT). You should explain why the TT is better than the PV basic AT. Please leave out the DJ/FM marketing info and post up some data showing why it is better. You know what, I bet you can't. Just another blow hard stirring the **** without being able to add any supporting data.

 

We are 4 pages into this thing and FM has not responded. Why?

 

Yeah where is FM and DD?

 

Why on earth would they want to come to this thread while it's a hostile environment?

Asking someone to post data that support claims on a product is great and another purpose for this forum but why bust chops and be disrespectful? What does disrespect buy you?

Why not go easy on your last few posts oleboy? Johnnie didn't do anything disrespectful, it's just conversation and how the reader interprets words, yes? I know who you are and you're smarter than to call someone you don't know names because you suspect a plant. Shill and plants are just what they are and soon enough they always play their hand.

This and several other threads in the DR would have been closed down long ago not only here but especially on a few other popular forums. Even that copy cat forum gives you no chance of allowing true debate without fear of banning or slice'n dice editing.

The only slice'n dice done here are the removal of shill and political arguments based on past heated differences. Many of you guys know me but don't really know me well. If I edit you then I'll tell you and why. Thankfully I've only had to pull out a few sales pitches and shill with a sprinkling of a disagreement here and there.

Everyone that posts here has as much right as anyone else. No Mod or Admin here will bust your chops without conferring with me first.

Help me to help you keep this area as clean as possible. Adult conversations, language and heavy debate are welcome. Hopefully ball busting or disrespect is unnecessary.


Please carry on guys.


Thx


-Wiz




.

 

The problem lies in the people who continually here and elsewhere use the forums to promote their personal agenda. You want to put someone and their work down then support it with verifiable fact. Personal statements and pretty pictures that no one understands and can be interpreted any which way are not facts. If you cannot or will not support it then do not post it. Save that for Farcebook. This has been gone over and over and over. Same story line.

The uninformed come here to learn and be informed. The drumrollers I have seen on forums have been pretty dang legit. When they post, they stand behind their rep which can be erroneously severely damaged by errant social media posters with an agenda. Data from a Dyno is 100% verifiable. The tune is either up to snuff or it is not. MLV is not inherently a bad product nor is TT. They have their uses. However, I wouldn't want to put 100% faith in a product that lacks descriptive support and explanation that enables someone to learn it without bias.

I have found issue with MLV. I put the data used out there. No explanation, no changes, I can still recreate the issue. But I still use the product but double check everything. And to be fair, you can do pretty much the same thing in TTS but without the ability to apply "filters". Think about that one, you cannot alter the data used nor it's outcome. You need to accept the flaws and abilities of the program. You cannot change it. If it is wrong, it is wrong. I can assure they will fix it if it is a problem that prevents it from doing what they say it does. Same goes for the PV product. These people know their products aa well as their liabilities. But if you have the time and the money, street tuning is a fine endeavor. Especially if you want to learn how EFI works and your a hands on person. But the dyno in the hands of a knowledgeable operator is quicker, accurate, repeatable and in the end cheaper.

These are reasons why NASCAR and Harley Draggers like Kirby Apathy use them. A proven tool. It is up to the consumer, you, to inform yourself on who to use and or what product/method. If you don't, your a fool. If your motor gets burned on a dyno ran by a honest knowledgeable operator and it's the fault of that operator, I will bet you he eats it and gets your bike restored. You use advise from someone on the internet to street tune your bike and burn that motor, it's on you.

There is no room for personalities in facts. Facts are facts. If you have to be continually asked to supply the facts and you don't then there is a problem and that should be informative to those wanted to learn. Support your statements or go home. Caveat Emptor. There is no free lunch, Speed and Power cost money, more for less the further you go. One thing riders forget to do is to a lot the funding and time for tuning when they decide to build their motor. A foolish strategy. This is something you don't want to be penny wise and dollar foolish with. Riding boots are not comfortable walking boots.

This is my HMO. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, how to do it or why to do it. If you want to take offense, fine. I have 52 years experience riding Harley's. Lets have at it. But I have seen a lot thing s that work and don't work. And the pattern I have noticed is if someone will not back their stuff up, it's worthless to me.

Wizard, my apologies if this does not meet your standards. If not, feel free to delete with no ill feelings.