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Jun 22, 2016 | 07:00 PM

#31

Gordon61

Road Warrior

Joined: Jun 2015

Posts: 1,325

Likes: 140

From: Edinburgh UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrdtail78

Stick with lambda. AFR is just confusing since none of us are dealing with fuel that has a stoich of 14.68. Unless that software is dealing with just a conversion. IDK?

That makes infinite sense given that is what the O2 sensor measures and the different rules that seem to be available.

I started with the FP3 and it's table for the same strategy was in AFR not Lambda ...as you say, rather confusing

Jun 22, 2016 | 07:10 PM

#32

whittlebeast

Road Master

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 1,177

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All software packages I know of actually treat AFR as lambda * 14.7 for gas under the covers.

Jun 22, 2016 | 07:52 PM

#33

hrdtail78

Thread Starter

Road Warrior

Joined: Mar 2013

Posts: 1,923

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

All software packages I know of actually treat AFR as lambda * 14.7 for gas under the covers.

I figured you dealt mostly in lambda? I got three of the 8400 series to install. Should be fun. GMS has been a great help.

http://pe-ltd.com/engine-control-units.html

Jun 22, 2016 | 10:38 PM

#34

whittlebeast

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Joined: Mar 2007

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I tend to think in AFR but I am old. When working at Lambda, I keep grabbing a calculator....

Go figure. Most non tuners on the internet tend to think in AFR. The programmers tend to think in Grams/Sec and true AFR. It is all the same when you tune to percentage error as the units all cancel out.

Andy

Jun 23, 2016 | 06:24 AM

#35

Wide Open Cycles

Former Sponsor

Joined: Mar 2016

Posts: 719

Likes: 208

From: Fredericksburg, Virginia

I think in AFR as well, and use a calculator or a cheat sheet lol. When in started tuning 17 years ago that's all wee used, old habit

Jun 23, 2016 | 07:00 AM

#36

whittlebeast

Road Master

Joined: Mar 2007

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So do we all agree that this screen shot is a clear indication that this tune is way less than quality and needs attention?

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Bad%20Tune.png

Andy

Last edited by whittlebeast; Jun 23, 2016 at 07:06 AM.

Jun 23, 2016 | 08:18 AM

#37

Wide Open Cycles

Former Sponsor

Joined: Mar 2016

Posts: 719

Likes: 208

From: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

So do we all agree that this screen shot is a clear indication that this tune is way less than quality and needs attention?

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Bad%20Tune.png

Andy

No, we can agree that something isn't right, could be the tune, intake leak, exhaust leak, bad injector etc. That's why you need more than just a scatter plot

Post up a big log, let's have a look

Last edited by Wide Open Cycles; Jun 23, 2016 at 08:25 AM.

Jun 23, 2016 | 08:40 AM

#38

whittlebeast

Road Master

Joined: Mar 2007

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Sure, you can also have a hole in a piston. There is lots of things the tuning will never fix. Having a reality check is always good.

Andy

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Jun 23, 2016 | 09:04 AM

#39

Wide Open Cycles

Former Sponsor

Joined: Mar 2016

Posts: 719

Likes: 208

From: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

Sure, you can also have a hole in a piston. There is lots of things the tuning will never fix. Having a reality check is always good.

Andy

That's my point, you asked if "we can agree that the 'tune is less than quality'". The answer is NO, not by just looking a the scatter plot. The plot just shows there is an issue.