No Device: scatter graphs and statistics
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Was that really the case?
You said that the bike throbbed because you thought the PW was changing drastically - did the bike actually throb or was it just the data rate collected from the can bus that wasn't fast enough to show you was was really going on?? (which was what I thought I saw in my PV logs)
I'm thinking a bit basic here ...if the feedback loop to control AFR wasn't working, would HD not need to fix that by either rewriting the PID algorithm or P,I,D variables??
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
One thing about statistics and graphs is do you have enough information to know what is going on.
For example - that "poor tune" and WOC's suggestion that maybe the tune was fine, but something else was wrong??
just thinking aloud
For example - that "poor tune" and WOC's suggestion that maybe the tune was fine, but something else was wrong??
just thinking aloud
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
does anyone actually know the response time of the closed-loop feedback system?? (...limited by the response time of the O2 sensors presumably?)
Last edited by Gordon61; Jun 24, 2016 at 12:26 PM.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I would question the "fully Tuned" portion of that. I would say if it isn't smooth then it isn't fully tuned. How was it fully tuned? With MLV and scatter graphs?
So, basically what you are saying is. If you fully tune a sporty with MLV and scatter plots. There will still be room for improvement, and if you remove the closed loop feed back and CLB tables out of the equation and run it straight off the AFR table at 14.6. It will run smoother. That is all you are doing when you swap in O2 eliminators. Just keeps the bike out of closed loop because the AFR will be out of range and the ECM is going to ignore O2 feed back and run straight on AFR table.
That is contractive to most of your post? A bike running that lean and still smooth?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
So you say but I don't have that problems tuning sportsters and I have never heard that complaint from any of my customers. I also don't believe that DJ changed what you are saying they changed. Where did this come from? Did DJ tell you this or did you get it from someplace else?
You make these statements after tuning your 1 2009 XL with a vision. Doesn't mean that there is a bust in the stock OE code. Doesn't mean all tuning devices and their calibrations are doing the same thing. Only thing that we can really tell is that your XL did it with a vision tuning device, and we can't even blame the device yet. Air flow, timing ,and fuel is what helps me smooth out an engine. Seems you are always hollering about bust here or bust there and the only thing I have ever seen you concerned with is VE tables, and the "hidden" tables. You're ignoring some tables that are exposed and effect how smooth an engine runs. Timing and EGR being 2 of them.
You claim PW deviations, and it has to be the "PID part of the equation."
Why don't you explain what that is and how DJ could of changed it to make it better with TT.
Last edited by hrdtail78; Jun 24, 2016 at 03:57 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
I have been thru this several times. Ask Steve as you won't take my word for it anyway.
See
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post15254721
Andy
See
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post15254721
Andy
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I have been thru this several times. Ask Steve as you won't take my word for it anyway.
See
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post15254721
Andy
See
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post15254721
Andy
....and you still haven't posted that data.
This topic is about how to tune with scatter plots and statistics on a Harley. Why this is worthy, what we can get out of them, how do we know what changes need to made to the tune, and how does statistics with MLV come in.
Seems you have just went on about TT and how that has fixed everything. The way you make it sounds. The thing is as close to magic as possible. Why would we look at or purchase anything else? You admit it did a better job than you with your own stuff???
For all we really know because how this all goes. We can't rule out even something as trivial as bad sampling. That is a huge difference between internet tuning and being present. Sitting on the seat and spinning a roller you get to hear, see, feel, and smell the thing. and it doesn't stop there. I'm not glued to the dyno. I can ride and log data on the street. (great for finishing timing) Give it some more adjustments or if something isn't right. Look at that. I got an empty dyno I can load it back onto and see what is going on.
......and when it is all said and done. I could sell, and install TT for you at an upcharge over my tune price.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Here you go. Note that his bike is way later than mine and Harley may have addressed this to some degree.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/attac...-log060916.zip
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/attac...-log060916.zip
Last edited by whittlebeast; Jun 24, 2016 at 06:23 PM.