No Device: scatter graphs and statistics
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
That is on of those bikes with the coupled PIDs. Just for fun, ride it around the block with o2s connected and then put a pair of o2 eliminators and see if it feels better.
Is it nosing over on the dyno at about 5300 RPM
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...O2%20Volts.png
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...gram%20AFR.png
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...xRPM%20AFR.png
Nice job covering the range.... How long is the bike on the power to get a sweep like that.
Andy
Is it nosing over on the dyno at about 5300 RPM
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...O2%20Volts.png
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...gram%20AFR.png
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...xRPM%20AFR.png
Nice job covering the range.... How long is the bike on the power to get a sweep like that.
Andy
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,114
Likes: 666
Did you start a thread just to have a pissing match...
i subbed this thread and feel like you did the bait and switch.
What a joke.. zept jokes sposed to be funny.
Christ monkey. much better ways to handle things and not drag in ppl who thought there was gonna be something to learn
i subbed this thread and feel like you did the bait and switch.
What a joke.. zept jokes sposed to be funny.
Christ monkey. much better ways to handle things and not drag in ppl who thought there was gonna be something to learn
I must admit it is frustrating trying to get Andy to actually pinpoint his tuning strategies and how these strategies help to make better calibration decisions based on scatter plots alone.
As a fulltime tuner I want to be as efficient as possible and take advantage of anything that make my tuning decisions more accurate and precise. This means getting to the finished product in a more timely manner than what I'm doing now.
I really want to see Andy's points of interest, but I never seem to be able to get him to post/show how he gets to where he says he ends up with a given tune.
As a last point, I have somewhat of a problem with the information coming from Andy concerning tuning busts, calibration busts, and other statements that he feels is programming issues causing running issues ra.ther than basic tuning issues.
Jason has mentioned and I will support him in stating we have not seen the problems Andy states with Sportsters we've tuned.
We have hundreds of our tuned Sportsters out there running just fine without bucking and snorting, or otherwise running poorly caused by unstable o2 sampling. Eh tuner needs to be aware of when to use closed loop and when not to.
I believe Andy has his 1 Sportster and has determined since he cannot get his tuning methods and strategies to produce a good running bike buying and installing a system to do it better was his answers but IT's NOT MAGIC.
As always, just my opinion,
Bob
amkoas,
I must admit it is frustrating trying to get Andy to actually pinpoint his tuning strategies and how these strategies help to make better calibration decisions based on scatter plots alone.
As a fulltime tuner I want to be as efficient as possible and take advantage of anything that make my tuning decisions more accurate and precise. This means getting to the finished product in a more timely manner than what I'm doing now.
I really want to see Andy's points of interest, but I never seem to be able to get him to post/show how he gets to where he says he ends up with a given tune.
As a last point, I have somewhat of a problem with the information coming from Andy concerning tuning busts, calibration busts, and other statements that he feels is programming issues causing running issues ra.ther than basic tuning issues.
Jason has mentioned and I will support him in stating we have not seen the problems Andy states with Sportsters we've tuned.
We have hundreds of our tuned Sportsters out there running just fine without bucking and snorting, or otherwise running poorly caused by unstable o2 sampling. Eh tuner needs to be aware of when to use closed loop and when not to.
I believe Andy has his 1 Sportster and has determined since he cannot get his tuning methods and strategies to produce a good running bike buying and installing a system to do it better was his answers but IT's NOT MAGIC.
As always, just my opinion,
Bob
I must admit it is frustrating trying to get Andy to actually pinpoint his tuning strategies and how these strategies help to make better calibration decisions based on scatter plots alone.
As a fulltime tuner I want to be as efficient as possible and take advantage of anything that make my tuning decisions more accurate and precise. This means getting to the finished product in a more timely manner than what I'm doing now.
I really want to see Andy's points of interest, but I never seem to be able to get him to post/show how he gets to where he says he ends up with a given tune.
As a last point, I have somewhat of a problem with the information coming from Andy concerning tuning busts, calibration busts, and other statements that he feels is programming issues causing running issues ra.ther than basic tuning issues.
Jason has mentioned and I will support him in stating we have not seen the problems Andy states with Sportsters we've tuned.
We have hundreds of our tuned Sportsters out there running just fine without bucking and snorting, or otherwise running poorly caused by unstable o2 sampling. Eh tuner needs to be aware of when to use closed loop and when not to.
I believe Andy has his 1 Sportster and has determined since he cannot get his tuning methods and strategies to produce a good running bike buying and installing a system to do it better was his answers but IT's NOT MAGIC.
As always, just my opinion,
Bob
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Not quit sure what you mean in the red?
Bike is with the customer, so no more testing. Why would I use O2 eliminators? I don't use these with flash based tuners. There is no need. I could just set the target in open loop but match what I got in the CLB table and set it at 14.4.
So, what would you do according to a scatter plot to improve on the calibration?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
You have the issue. You apparently aren't looking at the data and then looking for the source of the issue.
Look at Jasons data.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...ling%20PID.png
That is a huge percentage change of delivered fuel that can be felt from the seat. It will feel a lot like a chain with too much slack.
Andy
Look at Jasons data.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...ling%20PID.png
That is a huge percentage change of delivered fuel that can be felt from the seat. It will feel a lot like a chain with too much slack.
Andy
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
The first thing I would do on that bike is look at the long and short term fuel trims to see if they are changing your tune over time.
Next, I would try to figure out why the MAPxRPM vs Duty is nosing over at 5300. My first guess is a bad air filter or bad exhaust system.
I would also try to figure out what is going on with the IAT. It is all over the place.
Andy
Next, I would try to figure out why the MAPxRPM vs Duty is nosing over at 5300. My first guess is a bad air filter or bad exhaust system.
I would also try to figure out what is going on with the IAT. It is all over the place.
Andy
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Jason, Please post up the same sort of log on a big twin so we can see the difference.
I would love to also see data off one of the later water cooled head bikes to see if the engine temp is more stable. That one is moving around quite a bit.
I would love to also see data off one of the later water cooled head bikes to see if the engine temp is more stable. That one is moving around quite a bit.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
A typical Harley looks more like this when running Target Tune. Just for the record, most turbo motors look just like this.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
...good vs bad and point it out sort of thing? please?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
I would but people keep accusing me of manipulating data. I simply look at data and look to see what the motor is doing.
This can get way more interesting once we get past the BS and start actually looking at data. Everyone will get better at tuning, or at least knowing how to spot something must be messed up.
Andy
This can get way more interesting once we get past the BS and start actually looking at data. Everyone will get better at tuning, or at least knowing how to spot something must be messed up.
Andy