No Device: scatter graphs and statistics
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
You have the issue. You apparently aren't looking at the data and then looking for the source of the issue.
Look at Jasons data.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...ling%20PID.png
That is a huge percentage change of delivered fuel that can be felt from the seat. It will feel a lot like a chain with too much slack.
Andy
Look at Jasons data.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...ling%20PID.png
That is a huge percentage change of delivered fuel that can be felt from the seat. It will feel a lot like a chain with too much slack.
Andy
What record number does that screen shot start at and what record number does it finish at? Let's all take a look. I really can't tell what percent of change it is with your screen shot. I would want to put the curser on top of a peak and then the bottom of the peak to really see how much fuel is actually changing.
BTW that isn't a scatter plot. That is a trace with a time stamp. Completely a different thing. Traces are great because you can add so many other channels and see what they are doing in the same time stamp. TPS would be great to throw up there since the VE are TPS over rpm. Target AFR would also be trending to a richer target
Plus if you are hitting 75kpa and still climbing with RPM staying around idle. I'd bet it would be a bit more than a slack chain feel, but this area is mapped for math purposes of getting the most cells mapped with out blending.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
The first thing I would do on that bike is look at the long and short term fuel trims to see if they are changing your tune over time.
Next, I would try to figure out why the MAPxRPM vs Duty is nosing over at 5300. My first guess is a bad air filter or bad exhaust system.
I would also try to figure out what is going on with the IAT. It is all over the place.
Andy
Next, I would try to figure out why the MAPxRPM vs Duty is nosing over at 5300. My first guess is a bad air filter or bad exhaust system.
I would also try to figure out what is going on with the IAT. It is all over the place.
Andy
This bike was tuned back in March of 15. He still owns it and rides it often. Haven't heard of the tune changing. It's been over a year and if it hasn't changed yet. I would call it stable.
Nothing is wrong with the IAC. Look at the data as a whole and there is only about a 90 degree swing. As you are looking at the full trace. It is easy to see because of the time reference that I hit the 2500 area and go up in RPM while collecting data. Then I go down to the lower RPM's and collect data down there because it give the bike a chance to cool down and then I go back up to the higher RPM's once again. Another big plus of a dyno is I can control these things and I monitor temp and tune accordingly.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Sure, will post up anything you want. Got logs off a CANBus touring. Water and air cooled that would great for comparison. Both are simple stage 1's and tuned.
But first you need to address my questions. This thread isn't about collecting data. It is about teaching us how to use screen shots of scatter plots to tune with.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I don't see it. Why don't you post a scatter plot of that area. Be a good time to explain what you are seeing and what you would do to address it.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Here is what MAPxRPM vs DC looks like on a well tuned Sporty but still running closed loop narrow bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/PVTune/O2Chasing.png
You get two distinct Duty Cycles that shows as two lines of dots. Not good......
Same motor but without the issue.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
http://www.nbs-stl.com/PVTune/O2Chasing.png
You get two distinct Duty Cycles that shows as two lines of dots. Not good......
Same motor but without the issue.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
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Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Here is what MAPxRPM vs DC looks like on a well tuned Sporty but still running closed loop narrow bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/PVTune/O2Chasing.png
You get two distinct Duty Cycles that shows as two lines of dots. Not good......
Same motor but without the issue.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
http://www.nbs-stl.com/PVTune/O2Chasing.png
You get two distinct Duty Cycles that shows as two lines of dots. Not good......
Same motor but without the issue.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20vs%20DC.png
Andy
Why don't you see that in the sporty data I posted? It is running closed loop.
For the sake of learning. Let's stick with one at a time. Let's go back and finish the discussion that we were having about the data I posted. You stated it is a mess for 600 to 800 or around about. Are you going to explain what you are seeing or just skip over it. The problems you have tried to point out. I don't see. Fueling gets a little loose at 75kpa and 1000rpm. Not an issue. You bring up temp. It isn't like you said. You talk battery voltage. Didn't drop below 12.7.
Basically you really haven't pointed anything out that has been a problem. Then you post a screen shot and tell us this is what closed loop on a sporty look like. Nope. I posted sportster data for that very reason. You have three different dyno tuners that are saying they don't see the problems that you claim to see and my data backs that up. I would question how good that tune really is that you have posted.
But things don't have to be about problems. This thread is about tuning with scatter plots. Pointing out what you think is wrong is one thing, and it isn't tuning. Tuning comes in when you address the problems that you point out and they are no longer showing in the data. No body has ever paid me to point out problems. They pay me to fix them. People are following along. Let's get to the good stuff.
What is exactly a mess in the data and how do you address it? You got plenty of data with plenty of hits in the cells. It's all statistics and Harley's are simple. Show me.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
In your dyno plot, the HP levels out at 5250 and I spotted the same thing in the MAPxRPM vs Duty Cycle plot. Amazing the way this works....
I don't know of a way to tune on of these bikes when the closed loop is turned on and when the long and short term fuel trims are hidden from the end user.
Andy
I don't know of a way to tune on of these bikes when the closed loop is turned on and when the long and short term fuel trims are hidden from the end user.
Andy