No Device: HD/Delphi EFI Tuning Basics
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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Bob, I always use hints from the Pulse Width and Duty Cycle to get a feel for what may be going wrong with AE. I look for instantaneous acceleration in the RPM and the VSS. In extreme cases I see both even drop on an AE event. Most of time, the O2s are of very little help at this point.
Calling someone a troll brings no knowledge and experience to the table. I prefer to help people understand what they are up against when learning to tune.
Calling someone a troll brings no knowledge and experience to the table. I prefer to help people understand what they are up against when learning to tune.
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HD EFI Guru
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Gordon61
I have to be politically correct so I cannot answer some of your questions. That said the integrator will move all the time. Anytime you are in Closed loop Fuel Control that is what it is supposed to do! The ECM is doing it, as it is supposed too. This is how it controls the fuel. Will you ever get the fuel to be +/- 5%, sure you can provided the following conditions are kept. The fuel is the exact same all the time (no fill-ups), the weather never changes, engine temperature remains the same and vehicle speed and load remains exactly the same.
Now on to adaptive. The HD Delphi ECM allows the calibration to setup the learn cell areas. They come in pairs of two and you are allowed to set up to a max of 24 currently. Cars/trucks with Delphi have more. What layout and where they are is up to the calibrator setting it up in the calibration. There are hundreds of conditions to setup the layout of the cells and when they can be "learned" and if they are used at all.
I have to be politically correct so I cannot answer some of your questions. That said the integrator will move all the time. Anytime you are in Closed loop Fuel Control that is what it is supposed to do! The ECM is doing it, as it is supposed too. This is how it controls the fuel. Will you ever get the fuel to be +/- 5%, sure you can provided the following conditions are kept. The fuel is the exact same all the time (no fill-ups), the weather never changes, engine temperature remains the same and vehicle speed and load remains exactly the same.
Now on to adaptive. The HD Delphi ECM allows the calibration to setup the learn cell areas. They come in pairs of two and you are allowed to set up to a max of 24 currently. Cars/trucks with Delphi have more. What layout and where they are is up to the calibrator setting it up in the calibration. There are hundreds of conditions to setup the layout of the cells and when they can be "learned" and if they are used at all.
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HD EFI Guru
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So far I have not seen or talked about any major tuning issues. I feel we are still down and learning the basic understanding of the system itself and what it will and willnot do. Once we get to the point of some of the ins and outs of tuning I'm sure various data will get posted. If anyone want to post HD data now they can but I for one think there is much more to cover yet just about how things really work and understanding why.
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HD EFI Guru
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As an example (if I may), I was aiming at getting CLI to within +-5%
It just isn't happening no matter what I do yet she rides very well indeed
What I actually see if I graph it out is +-10% or so at lower revs/MAP getting into the +-5% or better higher up.
Is that a tune problem, or the way the tuner is presenting/using CLI?
It just isn't happening no matter what I do yet she rides very well indeed
What I actually see if I graph it out is +-10% or so at lower revs/MAP getting into the +-5% or better higher up.Is that a tune problem, or the way the tuner is presenting/using CLI?
This is a very rough picture of how the adaptive maybe set up. Without trying to show any one calibration in mind. Remember the calibrator (at the factory or Tool supplier only) can set them up. NO public tuning software I have seen allows all the necessary adjustments to set them up correctly. I'm the guy that sets these up at TTS so if they are screwed up it's my fault here!
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From: poway
So Steve,
How does adaptive work?
The integrator sounds like nothing more than a closed loop slow but real time feedback system to correct fuel errors..
Is the adaptive system considered the long term closed loop?
Is the adaptive system considered long term fuel trims and the integrator the short term fuel trim?
How does adaptive work?
The integrator sounds like nothing more than a closed loop slow but real time feedback system to correct fuel errors..
Is the adaptive system considered the long term closed loop?
Is the adaptive system considered long term fuel trims and the integrator the short term fuel trim?
This is correct Bruce
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HD EFI Guru
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So Steve,
How does adaptive work?
The integrator sounds like nothing more than a closed loop slow but real time feedback system to correct fuel errors..
Is the adaptive system considered the long term closed loop?
Is the adaptive system considered long term fuel trims and the integrator the short term fuel trim?
How does adaptive work?
The integrator sounds like nothing more than a closed loop slow but real time feedback system to correct fuel errors..
Is the adaptive system considered the long term closed loop?
Is the adaptive system considered long term fuel trims and the integrator the short term fuel trim?
The Integrator is the first of many parts of Closed Loop Fuel control. You will see it moving all the time for the most part in Closed loop. In steady state operation is typically where it will settle down. Base on the feedback system the Integrator will begin to adjust and it is allowed to move around with no influence on the system until it reaches set points and then if it stays out too much, for too long, the Adaptive will start to adjust, provided Adaptive learning is enabled. Adaptive values are then stored in the cells as they are set-up. If there is no cell for it to be stored then its gone. If you look at my crude chart a few post back you can see that one Adaptive cell covers many VE cells. You get one adaptive value, in one adaptive cell, so if it is correct for one VE cell, you had better hope it is correct for all the other VE cells in that adaptive cell range. When you shut the engine off the adaptive values are stored so the next start-up they are there to be used.