No Device: HD/Delphi EFI Tuning Basics
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,921
Likes: 8,026
From: poway
OK so the issue transducer conversion time.. What about 2 narrow bands sensors? One at 14.7 and another at 13.2? Is this possible?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
OK so the issue transducer conversion time.. What about 2 narrow bands sensors? One at 14.7 and another at 13.2? Is this possible?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
I don't know about 2 narrow bands but tuning with narrow band in the closed loop area and wide bands in the open loop area at the same time works fantastic with TTS.
I believe that down the road. This is how bikes are going to run. 100% feed back for entire AFR table. 2 styles of sensors. Doubt they will be 4.2's though. Auto world has already discovered that they don't last. But I believe this will be when our bubble will pop as tuners.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,740
Likes: 8,535
From: Bates County MO
OK so the issue transducer conversion time.. What about 2 narrow bands sensors? One at 14.7 and another at 13.2? Is this possible?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
Another thing to look at is how fast does the sensed error need to be corrected? In other words, How fast does the sensor input need to be processed?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,921
Likes: 8,026
From: poway
Not sure I need to Robin.. Thundermax does a fine job with the current sensors. Before the aunties chime in about Tmax not being auto-tune, Tmax is far closer to auto-tuning than any of the other systems currently available..
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I'm not going to rip on the Tmax, but the statement is based on your opinion and experience of using the system. My understanding is Tmax address the fuel side only. While there are programs that address fuel and timing, and IME timing sure has a lot to do with a bike being well tuned. I guess it depends on what one is willing to accept for the definition of tuning and auto.
But I am sure this statement is after you have used the others and that is how you are making this comparison.
Thread Starter
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HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,774
Well at least your all talking about what might be. That is just what I hoped you would do, start discussing the errors in things and what they can and do cause. Yes, the ECM has to deal with things and in some cases it does a better job of dealing with it but there is always a reason why, when there is an issue.
Since fuel is calculated based from oxygen levels anything that changes those calculations will cause fuel delivery to change. The MAP sensor will do that!
Since Spark is calculate based on the MAP sensor reading it too will change.
So the simple question has to be how far will things drift or change?
The answer isn't so straight forward as there are many causes but if everything is working as it should you will see about +/- 5% movement as the normal amount. That is the part that you cannot change and day to day, run to run, tank of fuel to tank of fuel it will happen. When it starts becoming more than +/- 5% then it's time to start looking into things.
As for AUTO TUNING, that is total BS, it does not happen from any product on the market today. That's advertising BS people try to use to sell you something, so let's all agree for the rest of this thread, please do not bring it up again.
Since fuel is calculated based from oxygen levels anything that changes those calculations will cause fuel delivery to change. The MAP sensor will do that!
Since Spark is calculate based on the MAP sensor reading it too will change.
So the simple question has to be how far will things drift or change?
The answer isn't so straight forward as there are many causes but if everything is working as it should you will see about +/- 5% movement as the normal amount. That is the part that you cannot change and day to day, run to run, tank of fuel to tank of fuel it will happen. When it starts becoming more than +/- 5% then it's time to start looking into things.
As for AUTO TUNING, that is total BS, it does not happen from any product on the market today. That's advertising BS people try to use to sell you something, so let's all agree for the rest of this thread, please do not bring it up again.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,921
Likes: 8,026
From: poway
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HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
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This kind of thoughts are just what some would like you to believe, others try and convince people it can be perfect and if not, somethings wrong. The truth lies somewhere in-between. It will never be perfect regardless of what you do, and it will never be terrible unless something is wrong.