Flat Track?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,636
Likes: 1,208
From: Ohio
Yeah, rain is part of riding here in the midwest. We always carry rain suits. Seems like no matter where we park there, bike is always filthy from dust.
We have set in the stands and along the backside bleachers…very hot in the grandstands some years. We didn’t make it this year…missed going. I hate the ride home…I-75 south late at night is not fun. I suppose heading north is no better.
We have set in the stands and along the backside bleachers…very hot in the grandstands some years. We didn’t make it this year…missed going. I hate the ride home…I-75 south late at night is not fun. I suppose heading north is no better.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,191
Likes: 843
I will tell you that American Grand National Flat Track racing is some of, if not, the most thrilling bike racing there is.
There are two classes;
GNC Twins (mile and half mile) and GNC Singles (short track and TT)
GNC Big Twins are the fastest; 130 mph+, 550 cc to infinity. Anything bigger than 1000 cc is restricted. These machines have no brakes and usually only one gear. Harley stopped sponsoring a team years ago. HOWEVER, HD is in bed with Vance and Hines who field a pretty good team. This sport has one of the highest mortality rates in all motorsports. You need cajones the size of beach ***** to run in these races. Interestingly, there are wimmin racers. This class and style of racing was created specifically for Harley Davidson and in the early days was all Harley. Jay Springsteen is probably the finest rider from the old days.
GNC Singles are brutal. Plain and simple. Single cylinder machines 250 to 450 cc. They normally pump out 60 hp and speeds in excess of 115 mph, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. The TT races are the most thrilling. They are motocross races with jumps but straights and turns like flat tracking run with flat track bikes. No brakes, single speed trannies. .
Harley Davidson isn't represented in the singles class at all. And the Big Twins now include many different brands including independent HD riders.
I can't help but wonder if the new Harley 440, which is a reincarnated BSA Victor 440, isn't aimed at TT racing. We can only hope HD will be represented by this new machine in the GNC singles division.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/e...les/x-440.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfRCUG89ObE
There are two classes;
GNC Twins (mile and half mile) and GNC Singles (short track and TT)
GNC Big Twins are the fastest; 130 mph+, 550 cc to infinity. Anything bigger than 1000 cc is restricted. These machines have no brakes and usually only one gear. Harley stopped sponsoring a team years ago. HOWEVER, HD is in bed with Vance and Hines who field a pretty good team. This sport has one of the highest mortality rates in all motorsports. You need cajones the size of beach ***** to run in these races. Interestingly, there are wimmin racers. This class and style of racing was created specifically for Harley Davidson and in the early days was all Harley. Jay Springsteen is probably the finest rider from the old days.
GNC Singles are brutal. Plain and simple. Single cylinder machines 250 to 450 cc. They normally pump out 60 hp and speeds in excess of 115 mph, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. The TT races are the most thrilling. They are motocross races with jumps but straights and turns like flat tracking run with flat track bikes. No brakes, single speed trannies. .
Harley Davidson isn't represented in the singles class at all. And the Big Twins now include many different brands including independent HD riders.
I can't help but wonder if the new Harley 440, which is a reincarnated BSA Victor 440, isn't aimed at TT racing. We can only hope HD will be represented by this new machine in the GNC singles division.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/e...les/x-440.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfRCUG89ObE
And at least a 4 speed transmission.
I was a regular back in the day
When Jay, Parker, and Carr dominated.
Not so much anymore it seems Indian
Has took over the sport.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,983
Likes: 2,144
From: Ohio
I will tell you that American Grand National Flat Track racing is some of, if not, the most thrilling bike racing there is.
There are two classes;
GNC Twins (mile and half mile) and GNC Singles (short track and TT)
GNC Big Twins are the fastest; 130 mph+, 550 cc to infinity. Anything bigger than 1000 cc is restricted. These machines have no brakes and usually only one gear. Harley stopped sponsoring a team years ago. HOWEVER, HD is in bed with Vance and Hines who field a pretty good team. This sport has one of the highest mortality rates in all motorsports. You need cajones the size of beach ***** to run in these races. Interestingly, there are wimmin racers. This class and style of racing was created specifically for Harley Davidson and in the early days was all Harley. Jay Springsteen is probably the finest rider from the old days.
GNC Singles are brutal. Plain and simple. Single cylinder machines 250 to 450 cc. They normally pump out 60 hp and speeds in excess of 115 mph, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. The TT races are the most thrilling. They are motocross races with jumps but straights and turns like flat tracking run with flat track bikes. No brakes, single speed trannies. .
Harley Davidson isn't represented in the singles class at all. And the Big Twins now include many different brands including independent HD riders.
I can't help but wonder if the new Harley 440, which is a reincarnated BSA Victor 440, isn't aimed at TT racing. We can only hope HD will be represented by this new machine in the GNC singles division.
There are two classes;
GNC Twins (mile and half mile) and GNC Singles (short track and TT)
GNC Big Twins are the fastest; 130 mph+, 550 cc to infinity. Anything bigger than 1000 cc is restricted. These machines have no brakes and usually only one gear. Harley stopped sponsoring a team years ago. HOWEVER, HD is in bed with Vance and Hines who field a pretty good team. This sport has one of the highest mortality rates in all motorsports. You need cajones the size of beach ***** to run in these races. Interestingly, there are wimmin racers. This class and style of racing was created specifically for Harley Davidson and in the early days was all Harley. Jay Springsteen is probably the finest rider from the old days.
GNC Singles are brutal. Plain and simple. Single cylinder machines 250 to 450 cc. They normally pump out 60 hp and speeds in excess of 115 mph, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. The TT races are the most thrilling. They are motocross races with jumps but straights and turns like flat tracking run with flat track bikes. No brakes, single speed trannies. .
Harley Davidson isn't represented in the singles class at all. And the Big Twins now include many different brands including independent HD riders.
I can't help but wonder if the new Harley 440, which is a reincarnated BSA Victor 440, isn't aimed at TT racing. We can only hope HD will be represented by this new machine in the GNC singles division.
Last edited by hd4evr2008; Jul 18, 2023 at 08:04 PM.
Wo
"The classes are 450 singles, there are NO 250cc bikes. The 450's are converted motocross bikes, no more framers, and the other class is Super Twins."
The Eligible bikes are 250 cc to 450 cc. I guess you just weren't aware of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzplsfAmkM
I'm guessing you just didn't keep up with Class 1 over the years. Other engine sizes are allowed. 750 is the engine of choice because of restrictions, not because someone can't design a competitive bike. .:
The Harley XG750R, I guess, is difficult to pick out of the pack.
https://www.motopinas.com/motorcycle...-trackers.html
Harley did pull out of all factory sponsored teams last year. Polaris is the only factory sponsored team now. Polaris has won the last four championships. HARLEY DAVIDSON holds the record for the most recorded flat track wins in history. This is a very good article on the relationship between HD and Vance and Hines:
https://www.vanceandhines.com/the-st...nce-interview/
Both classes run rear brakes, and front and rear brakes on a TT track. 450's run the miles, 1/2 miles just like the Super Twins. The Indian factory bikes are running 140+MPH on the miles.They both run TT. Most have 5 or 6 speed transmissions.
I agree that brakes and transmissions are OPTIONAL. There is a small rear brake on the xg750r to aid in getting into the slide. You can see it in the pictures in the link above. I appreciate you bringing that fact to the discussion.
The advent of electric push button/paddle clutches has made more shifting possible in class 2. I missed that clutchless trend.
Class 1, however, has not changed too much. While rear brakes have gotten more common, the transmission is used to get into third gear where they pretty much stay for an entire race. There is very little, if any, actual shifting done in big twin flat track racing. The vast majority of control is garnered by the throttle and shifting weight.
I've been involved in flat track motorcycle racing for over 60 years.
"The classes are 450 singles, there are NO 250cc bikes. The 450's are converted motocross bikes, no more framers, and the other class is Super Twins."
The Eligible bikes are 250 cc to 450 cc. I guess you just weren't aware of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzplsfAmkM
I'm guessing you just didn't keep up with Class 1 over the years. Other engine sizes are allowed. 750 is the engine of choice because of restrictions, not because someone can't design a competitive bike. .:
GNC1 Championship
GNC1 Twins (Mile and Half-mile)- Top Speed: Over 130 mph
- Engine Displacement: 550cc - 1250cc with the following restrictions, racing only engines may not exceed 750cc, engines greater than 1000cc are restricted to air/oil cooled.
The Harley XG750R, I guess, is difficult to pick out of the pack.
https://www.motopinas.com/motorcycle...-trackers.html
Harley did pull out of all factory sponsored teams last year. Polaris is the only factory sponsored team now. Polaris has won the last four championships. HARLEY DAVIDSON holds the record for the most recorded flat track wins in history. This is a very good article on the relationship between HD and Vance and Hines:
https://www.vanceandhines.com/the-st...nce-interview/
Both classes run rear brakes, and front and rear brakes on a TT track. 450's run the miles, 1/2 miles just like the Super Twins. The Indian factory bikes are running 140+MPH on the miles.They both run TT. Most have 5 or 6 speed transmissions.
I agree that brakes and transmissions are OPTIONAL. There is a small rear brake on the xg750r to aid in getting into the slide. You can see it in the pictures in the link above. I appreciate you bringing that fact to the discussion.
The advent of electric push button/paddle clutches has made more shifting possible in class 2. I missed that clutchless trend.
Class 1, however, has not changed too much. While rear brakes have gotten more common, the transmission is used to get into third gear where they pretty much stay for an entire race. There is very little, if any, actual shifting done in big twin flat track racing. The vast majority of control is garnered by the throttle and shifting weight.
I've been involved in flat track motorcycle racing for over 60 years.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,983
Likes: 2,144
From: Ohio
The video you posted was an amateur 250cc race. We're talking Grand National Championship racing. There are NO 250's in the professional races. Every single bike in the "singles" class is a 450. Every bike in the Super Twins class is a 750, except the 999cc KTM, ridden by Briar and Bronson Bauman, and the 650cc Royal Enfield, ridden by Johnny Lewis. There are a few guys on Kawasakis, and Yamahas. Brakes are NOT "optional" in the PROFESSIONAL races. There are non professional Vintage races that have a brakeless class, but the Grand National PROFESSIONAL riders must have brakes on their bikes . I posted that Harley was still racing in the Super Twins class, but only ONE rider is racing a Harley, and they don't even show up to all the races. Why? Because that XG750 is a DOG! Terry Vance can build a drag bike, but he knows NOTHING about flat rack racing or building a competitive flat track motorcycle.
Last edited by hd4evr2008; Jul 20, 2023 at 02:32 PM.
We're talking Grand National Championship racing. There are NO 250's in the professional races. Every single bike in the "singles" class is a 450. Every bike in the Super Twins class is a 750, except the 999cc KTM, ridden by Briar and Bronson Bauman, and the 650cc Royal Enfield, ridden by Johnny Lewis. There are a few guys on Kawasakis, and Yamahas.
I won't quibble with you as you make my points very clear. In GNC2, 250 to 450 cc bikes are allowed. The fact that there are no 250 cc bikes doesn't mean they can't be entered. Same with the big twins class as you so rightly pointed out, Big twins is not limited to only 750 cc class.
Brakes are NOT "optional" in the PROFESSIONAL races. There are non professional Vintage races that have a brakeless class, but the Grand National PROFESSIONAL riders must have brakes on their bikes
The Rules of Flat Track RacingEach sport has its own set of rules, etiquette and style so lets dive in and see how flat track racing really works
The bike:
From Indian to Harley to Husqvarna and KTM theres a whole world out there for flat track bikes, and its really up to you. Lots of people opt for buying a cheap bike then go crazy with the modifications, because lets be honest its going to take a battering! Youll be handlebar to handlebar with your competitors as you storm round tight corners and into flat straight whilst pushing and pulling yourself and the bike to win.
All you need to remember is that the bike can only have a rear brake and is allowed to be geared.
NOTE: You are correct about the TT class using front and rear brakes. This does make sense since it is half motocross and not pure Flat Track.
I posted that Harley was still racing in the Super Twins class, but only ONE rider is racing a Harley, and they don't even show up to all the races. Why? Because that XG750 is a DOG! Terry Vance can build a drag bike, but he knows NOTHING about flat rack racing or building a competitive flat track motorcycle.
I won't quibble with you as you make my points very clear. In GNC2, 250 to 450 cc bikes are allowed. The fact that there are no 250 cc bikes doesn't mean they can't be entered. Same with the big twins class as you so rightly pointed out, Big twins is not limited to only 750 cc class.
Brakes are NOT "optional" in the PROFESSIONAL races. There are non professional Vintage races that have a brakeless class, but the Grand National PROFESSIONAL riders must have brakes on their bikes
The Rules of Flat Track RacingEach sport has its own set of rules, etiquette and style so lets dive in and see how flat track racing really works
The bike:
From Indian to Harley to Husqvarna and KTM theres a whole world out there for flat track bikes, and its really up to you. Lots of people opt for buying a cheap bike then go crazy with the modifications, because lets be honest its going to take a battering! Youll be handlebar to handlebar with your competitors as you storm round tight corners and into flat straight whilst pushing and pulling yourself and the bike to win.
All you need to remember is that the bike can only have a rear brake and is allowed to be geared.
NOTE: You are correct about the TT class using front and rear brakes. This does make sense since it is half motocross and not pure Flat Track.
I posted that Harley was still racing in the Super Twins class, but only ONE rider is racing a Harley, and they don't even show up to all the races. Why? Because that XG750 is a DOG! Terry Vance can build a drag bike, but he knows NOTHING about flat rack racing or building a competitive flat track motorcycle.
I'm really hoping that HD will do something with the new x450 (sort of a BSA 440 clone) made for them by Hero (BSA) of india..
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 157,524
Likes: 57,076
From: Michigan 15 Minutes East Of Hell
BSA ... A good friend ( Ron Halem ) was Gold Star Ron ... He a bit left of center but knew his stuff ... Ron's gone now :<(
https://www.roadracingworld.com/news...ron-halem-rip/
https://www.roadracingworld.com/news...ron-halem-rip/
This is a great link to explain how Polaris took over Flat Track with a purpose built machine. I agree 100% with the narrator of this feature that HD has to simply get off their butts and make it happen. I feel HD threw in the towel about racing a long time ago,.