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Around 2004 - 2005, H-D used catalytic mufflers (65863-04) on the touring bikes before moving on to sticking the catalytic converters into the downpipes/downpipe junction.
On these bikes, the downpipes are pretty much the same as the older models, straight thought, and it looks like the RHS muffler is just one big catalytic converter. The LHS muffler is almost blanked off with a pea sized hole and some chambering.
Yah, I know .... it's a H-D, throw another sh*tload of money at it and buy a new set of proper pipes ... but I can pick up a set for almost free, enjoy hacking things around, and just want to fill in a gap in my knowledge. The down pipes alone would be a upgrade for my old Evo. I was not paying attention to the Tourers at this time. It seems it must have been an unpopular design as it was dropped quickly, I guess because of their bulk.
I know folks de-cat the later downpipes ... did anyone try de-catting this muffler? Just boring a hole straight through the middle of the muffler? As far as I can see, there are no chambers and it's all just stuffed full of cat cells.
How restrictive where these things? They certainly look fatter than older and subsequent ones.
Some guys I know just got hit with $100s of fine for riding H-Ds with pipes with no emissions compliancy marks. It'd be useful to have something with an official compliancy mark on it.
it was my understanding that catalytic converters became mandatory in california in '09 and the rest of the country in '10. manufacturers can no longer label their pipes "for off-road use only" to avoid e.p.a. compliance rules. after market products sold in california must have the correct e.p.a. stampings to avoid possible fines. still do not think this applies to models built before '09 for the california market.
evo and twin cam headers interchange if you need to replace the ones on your evo.
performance advantage?...none.
2 x 1.75" pipes.
You can mod your mufflers, but anyone smart enough to look for a stamp will probably also be able to jam a nightstick up your hole.
you may do better to get 2010+ muffler which do have a stamp, and are much less restrictive as they are meant to be used with the catted header.
i run SE Fatshots on my 09. these are stamped compliant for 96,103,110 but my header has no cat...and the security screws fell out. the disk stacks are altered and i have closed end caps
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; Oct 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM.
... but anyone smart enough to look for a stamp will probably also be able to jam a nightstick up your hole.
My eyes watered at that. Is that a special public service the police in San Francisco offer?
On a said muffler you could the last couple of inches of cat baffler.
I am not after a performance upgrade, just a cheap to no cost replacement. My header has rusted through at the join/bracket and looks like the surface of a rotten potato.
I'd just not seen any discussion of these particular mufflers ... may be they're are Japanese and European H-D? Basically, you can shine a light straight through them. The muffler looks like one big solid cat.
I believe those cat mufflers were required in California only back in 04-05 era. As such, you don't need them in other states. Catalytic converters generate a lot of heat. I'd be awful inclined to go with stock federal take-offs instead of seeking out a set of cat pipes. Especially if you aren't required to run a cat.
I had the '06 CVO touring mufflers that hat cats in both mufflers. I was able to cleanly bore through them by hitting a sharpened 1.5 steel pipe with a small sledge through the cat material. Once the cats were out they were a nice mellow muffler with a deeper tone then stock.
I know some people did the same using a concrete boring bit with exentsion.
it was my understanding that catalytic converters became mandatory in california in '09 and the rest of the country in '10. manufacturers can no longer label their pipes "for off-road use only" to avoid e.p.a. compliance rules. after market products sold in california must have the correct e.p.a. stampings to avoid possible fines. still do not think this applies to models built before '09 for the california market.
My 06 Softail had cats in the mufflers but they didn't use them in 07, went back to them in 08. EPA stamp is only required on mufflers manufactured in 2013 and later installed on bikes manufactured in 2013 and later but that is a noise rule not a smog rule.
Some guy I know in Germany got pulled by German police and a ticket and a fine for "damaging the environment" for not have an legal stamp on his. 'E mark' I think he said it was.
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Circa 2004 - 2005 Catalytic Mufflers?
