I just write over the first auto tune session that I've started. I agree with you, to have three or four sessions saved that were only used to get you to the end point makes no sense to me. Each to his own though.

 

One other thought, jt.....

When you're finished with an auto tune the screen will tell you when you export the new data what the percentage of change is that was made to the map. It behooves you to pay attention to that. I try to get the changes down to a 2% / 2% change. That's about as good as you're going to get. If on the other hand you're seeing 2% / 6% (or higher on the second percentage shown), you can continue to fine tune things so that you're truly getting optimum performance with the narrow band capabilities that you're working with.

 

You should save the bikes original tune and the tune supplied by Fuel Moto.


Beyond that you can create a couple of other tunes, let's say one that you've been writing over with the PV and narrow band sensors till it was as good as you could get it to be within the parameters of the 02 sensors. Then maybe take that tune and customize it with timing/fuel using the additional quick tune features of the PV.


There is not a set parameter than any given engine will run it's best at, or be most efficient in terms of A/F ratio. Engine modifications that are increasing the efficiency of the engine, may actually favor a bit less timing and less fuel, vs pouring timing and fuel to it to get the best results.


When I tune engines here, we shoot for maximum efficiency in the "normal" driving range first. For all WOT runs I tend to stay just a tad on the rich side, and conservative with timing as well. This gives us a little cushion for inconsistencies in fuel quality (octane/btu content), and varying weather (DA) as well. It's best to give yourself a little room there, certainly beats pounding out a rod bearing or putting a piston or two in the oil pan.....IMHO.....Cliff

 

Cliff, understand where you're coming from. If one was going to customize an auto tune, would be what you're saying.

Really you could save tunes based on three weather patterns alone. Lol! I'll just do one or two more runs, overlap the first auto tune and go from there.

All input is appreciated!!!!

 

I really think 3 good runs over a known MAP is sufficient. As mentioned earlier, with the narrow band 02's, I only try to tune the "normal" driving range, or about 30 percent or less throttle angle and no more than about 3000-3200rpm's.


It's cool to watch the auto-tune MAP while you do this, and with each additional tuning session you get fewer and fewer changes by the PV.


Tuning in this manner can pay big benefits for fuel consumption, throttle response and smoothness right off idle and thru the lower rpm/light load range. My bike went from around 36-39mpg's with the PC-5 at it's best, to 41-44mpgs with the PV after I auto-tuned and accepted the changes. That's HUGE increase in fuel economy. The only negative was that I was never overly impressed or truly happy with the power from the 2012 103ci engine, even after all the changes/upgrades and custom tuning I did to it.


Maybe I'm a bit pickier than most when it comes to these things, but I still think the base 103ci engine, at least thru 2012 is a complete "turd", and it doesn't really shine even after you throw a lot of bolt on mods to it. It really needs better cams AND all the other stuff we typically do to these engines.....IMHO.....Cliff

 

Gipper......I'll pay more attention to % change. Thank you!

Cliff, I should have rode a bit more conservative. Never too late? I can run another tune under lite throttle. Will auto tune try to correct?

 

Hey thanks everybody. This helps a bit more than a video. Guys that use it. Mileage never was something I cared about. But I am down in the 36-38 range so guess I will run a couple more auto tunes.

 

The narrow ban 02's are great for fine tuning the "normal" driving range, but their parameters are limited for heavy and WOT tuning. This is why we buy the PV from a source that really knows their shi@ when it comes to these things, or you can start out with a MAP from their website that happens to match what you are doing, so we are basically letting someone else cut to the chase for us.


With a good baseline MAP to work with, the PV user can still make improvements, but nothing you will do in the upper rpm range under heavy or full throttle can be effectively evaluated "by the seat of your pants". You really need a dyno (or some other way to measure engine power or bike performance) to tune in that area for best results.


Completely different deal if you are tuning for best idle quality, smoothness off idle, and least amount of fuel consumed per mile based on your driving style. The narrow band 02's are fine for that deal, and you can always move outside of their range with a little custom tuning using the PV. It's easy to note improvements and for sure you can see it when you go more miles per tankful as you nail the tune down.


I probably spent a total of about a month tuning my 2012 Ultra Limited. I'd data log and accept the changes, then write over that MAP a couple of times, then put a few tanks thru the bike to evaluate it. Then I would make very small changes to it, and save those in another slot, drive on that MAP for a while, and compare to the one it was based on, etc.


It's real easy to know when you are WAY off, but as you nail down the tune it takes more time and more miles to really know if one small change was better than the last one. The PV is an excellent tool for the educated rider to tune with, and the more you educate yourself on how it works, and spend more time with it, the better the end results are going to be.


It's certainly NOT for everyone, some folks just slip on some loud pipes, install a tuner (or have someone do it for them) and never give it a second thought, which is fine. For others, who really want the best game in town, and don't mind spending a little time with the PV, you can really have your cake and eat it to......FWIW......Cliff

 

Imo.....shifting at 3g running 60ish at 2600 +/- should put a 103 in the 40's all day long. Once this is accomplished, ride the bike anyway you like.

If your doing that now and achieving 36-38. I'd say that's a bit low. Going back to the base map and starting all over is always an option.
The auto tune you have right now is not like some sacred cow. Lol!

 

jt, do it all! Ride conservative taking time in each gear before you shift then save that auto tune run. Then run another auto tune session where you're riding it hard, and giving it WOT; save and flash that one. Then ride two up (putting a load on the bike), and do that in a combination of riding styles (as long as you don't exceed safety necessities); export, and flash that tune run.

Eventually you'll end up with a tune, or a couple of tunes, that satisfy you based on your what kind of performance you're looking for on any given day. I personally like one tune that will give me all the torque that the bike, with all of my mods, is capable of producing. I have found that a number of auto tunes at altitude with a load (two up) will leave me with a tune that makes my bike run like a scalded ape at sea level, where I live. I am very good with that! Cliff and I differ in that I don't mind giving up a few MPG for more torque. That being said, it's evident that he knows more about tuning than I do from a technical standpoint.

I also respectfully differ in that the 103 is no more a turd than the 88.....stock. They're both turds in a stock state. I've owned both. When you wake them up with the right mods, e.g cams, heads, mufflers, a/c, fuel management system.....and the list can go on....the 103 can be downright respectable, and make the 88 seem anemic; if you're comparing apples to apples, mod for mod, and keeping in mind that the gearing is very different in a 103 than it is in an 88" (even with a Baker 6 speed as a mod in the 88).

Most people say that two to three auto tune runs are sufficient. Well, for guys that understand timing and AFR better than I do that may be true. I am not the guy that knows much when it comes to that sort of thing (my wheelhouse is wrenching), so I have learned that for me, 4-6 tunes running in a number of different riding styles is what it's taken for me to see little change percentages toward the end, and by that time I'm pretty happy with the results. However, I make sure that I cover ALL of my riding styles that might fit my mood on any given day, to come up with my final tune; I don't restrict it to just riding in mid range because I don't ride mid range all the time. I ride mid range some of the time.

Your question was timely for me in that I changed my slipons last week, and I am currently in the process of tuning these pipes with my PV. I've run 3 or 4 auto tunes, and I'm down to seeing a percentage change of 2% / 6%. I am going to load up this next weekend and run up to 8000 feet, and auto tune for probably an hour while I am up at elevation. It'll be a long tune (certainly does't hurt anything other than gas mileage), and when I am finished I can tell you that I'll have a pretty sweet tune using the auto tune feature. It'll be perfect for handling any riding I want to do based on my mood, but it may not be the perfect tune for efficiency where fuel consumption is concerned. For that, you can have a completely separate tune using Cliff's suggestions.

Good luck. It sounds to me like you're just learning the the PV, and there's a lot to it. I've only scratched the surface, and I really do like this tool. There may be better options out there, and there's certainly more to the PV than I care to delve into, but it's pretty stinking good just applying it at the levels that I have suggested. Let us know how you like it as time progresses, because you will not master it in just one week.