Power Vision users
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 86
From: Centeral Coast, California
I really think 3 good runs over a known MAP is sufficient. As mentioned earlier, with the narrow band 02's, I only try to tune the "normal" driving range, or about 30 percent or less throttle angle and no more than about 3000-3200rpm's.
It's cool to watch the auto-tune MAP while you do this, and with each additional tuning session you get fewer and fewer changes by the PV.
Tuning in this manner can pay big benefits for fuel consumption, throttle response and smoothness right off idle and thru the lower rpm/light load range. My bike went from around 36-39mpg's with the PC-5 at it's best, to 41-44mpgs with the PV after I auto-tuned and accepted the changes. That's HUGE increase in fuel economy. The only negative was that I was never overly impressed or truly happy with the power from the 2012 103ci engine, even after all the changes/upgrades and custom tuning I did to it.
Maybe I'm a bit pickier than most when it comes to these things, but I still think the base 103ci engine, at least thru 2012 is a complete "turd", and it doesn't really shine even after you throw a lot of bolt on mods to it. It really needs better cams AND all the other stuff we typically do to these engines.....IMHO.....Cliff
It's cool to watch the auto-tune MAP while you do this, and with each additional tuning session you get fewer and fewer changes by the PV.
Tuning in this manner can pay big benefits for fuel consumption, throttle response and smoothness right off idle and thru the lower rpm/light load range. My bike went from around 36-39mpg's with the PC-5 at it's best, to 41-44mpgs with the PV after I auto-tuned and accepted the changes. That's HUGE increase in fuel economy. The only negative was that I was never overly impressed or truly happy with the power from the 2012 103ci engine, even after all the changes/upgrades and custom tuning I did to it.
Maybe I'm a bit pickier than most when it comes to these things, but I still think the base 103ci engine, at least thru 2012 is a complete "turd", and it doesn't really shine even after you throw a lot of bolt on mods to it. It really needs better cams AND all the other stuff we typically do to these engines.....IMHO.....Cliff
Last edited by gipper; Jul 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 57
From: N. IL
Thanks guys appreciate the dialogue!!! At the end of the day, want to do the best of my ability and use the PV to get me there. Also like to cruise and get 42+ when called upon!
Infancy stages on this whole PV thing. Will continue to log a few time watching for the % changes. May tinker further when I get bored......
Pretty sure if we are looking to max a givin bike out, probably be best using Auto tune pro. 14.6 to 1 doesn't sound like a recipe for big power.....lol!
Infancy stages on this whole PV thing. Will continue to log a few time watching for the % changes. May tinker further when I get bored......
Pretty sure if we are looking to max a givin bike out, probably be best using Auto tune pro. 14.6 to 1 doesn't sound like a recipe for big power.....lol!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
the reason that you would do that is so that if you need to 'step' back one, you can do that. if you've overwritten it, then you have to reload your base map and start all over. nothing says that once you're done, you have to keep all those interim maps, but until you're satisfied, it's a good idea to be able to make minor step backs.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 182
Likes: 13
From: Ohio
" I also respectfully differ in that the 103 is no more a turd than the 88.....stock. They're both turds in a stock state."
Keep in mind when I mention the 103 is a "turd", I'm only talking about 2012-2013's, until they put the better cams in them.
I was told by Fuel Moto, both of our local dealerships who dyno tune, and our local resident expert who owns a dyno that the cams are "brick wall" for the 103's, and they all have dyno numbers to prove it.
I don't need a dyno, after all the money I threw at the 2012 103ci engine, it still felt "flat" for power, and not very impressive anyplace. My next step was going to be better cams, but someone made me an offer on the bike I couldn't refuse.
On the same subject, we are seeing BIG power numbers from the 2014-up 103's by simply adding 2 into 1 pipes and custom tuning.
I totally agree about saving MAPS. You should keep the original MAP supplied with the tuner, and at least one that you've "tweaked" on that produced good results. Build on that second MAP by saving the changes, then build on those MAPS, leaving the original and at least one successful MAP intact to revert back to, if/as needed.......Cliff
Keep in mind when I mention the 103 is a "turd", I'm only talking about 2012-2013's, until they put the better cams in them.
I was told by Fuel Moto, both of our local dealerships who dyno tune, and our local resident expert who owns a dyno that the cams are "brick wall" for the 103's, and they all have dyno numbers to prove it.
I don't need a dyno, after all the money I threw at the 2012 103ci engine, it still felt "flat" for power, and not very impressive anyplace. My next step was going to be better cams, but someone made me an offer on the bike I couldn't refuse.
On the same subject, we are seeing BIG power numbers from the 2014-up 103's by simply adding 2 into 1 pipes and custom tuning.
I totally agree about saving MAPS. You should keep the original MAP supplied with the tuner, and at least one that you've "tweaked" on that produced good results. Build on that second MAP by saving the changes, then build on those MAPS, leaving the original and at least one successful MAP intact to revert back to, if/as needed.......Cliff
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 86
From: Centeral Coast, California
" I also respectfully differ in that the 103 is no more a turd than the 88.....stock. They're both turds in a stock state."
Keep in mind when I mention the 103 is a "turd", I'm only talking about 2012-2013's, until they put the better cams in them.
I was told by Fuel Moto, both of our local dealerships who dyno tune, and our local resident expert who owns a dyno that the cams are "brick wall" for the 103's, and they all have dyno numbers to prove it.
I don't need a dyno, after all the money I threw at the 2012 103ci engine, it still felt "flat" for power, and not very impressive anyplace. My next step was going to be better cams, but someone made me an offer on the bike I couldn't refuse.
On the same subject, we are seeing BIG power numbers from the 2014-up 103's by simply adding 2 into 1 pipes and custom tuning.
I totally agree about saving MAPS. You should keep the original MAP supplied with the tuner, and at least one that you've "tweaked" on that produced good results. Build on that second MAP by saving the changes, then build on those MAPS, leaving the original and at least one successful MAP intact to revert back to, if/as needed.......Cliff
Keep in mind when I mention the 103 is a "turd", I'm only talking about 2012-2013's, until they put the better cams in them.
I was told by Fuel Moto, both of our local dealerships who dyno tune, and our local resident expert who owns a dyno that the cams are "brick wall" for the 103's, and they all have dyno numbers to prove it.
I don't need a dyno, after all the money I threw at the 2012 103ci engine, it still felt "flat" for power, and not very impressive anyplace. My next step was going to be better cams, but someone made me an offer on the bike I couldn't refuse.
On the same subject, we are seeing BIG power numbers from the 2014-up 103's by simply adding 2 into 1 pipes and custom tuning.
I totally agree about saving MAPS. You should keep the original MAP supplied with the tuner, and at least one that you've "tweaked" on that produced good results. Build on that second MAP by saving the changes, then build on those MAPS, leaving the original and at least one successful MAP intact to revert back to, if/as needed.......Cliff
Back to the PV tuning component....really informative information from you, Cliff. I may reach out to you in the future to discuss more in depth tuning tweaks on the PV.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 57
From: N. IL
Great thread guys. Appreciate, so much! But what I don't appreciate is both of you guys calling out the "12 103 a turd. Kinda taking it personally. Didn't sleep much last night. Might have something to do with you guys.......
Maybe we can shift the focus back to the topic, on proper use of the PV? Hahaha. Jk!
Maybe we can shift the focus back to the topic, on proper use of the PV? Hahaha. Jk!
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 86
From: Centeral Coast, California
Great thread guys. Appreciate, so much! But what I don't appreciate is both of you guys calling out the "12 103 a turd. Kinda taking it personally. Didn't sleep much last night. Might have something to do with you guys.......
Maybe we can shift the focus back to the topic, on proper use of the PV? Hahaha. Jk!
Maybe we can shift the focus back to the topic, on proper use of the PV? Hahaha. Jk!
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 182
Likes: 13
From: Ohio
HD must have known there was an "issue" with the early 103's, or at least that they were lacking a bit, or they wouldn't have opted to put better cams in them in 2014.
Nuff said about all that, but what we do know is, that you can get the early 103's well into the 40mpg range with a few bolts ons and custom tuning. Well worth the effort, and at least when you ride with your buds you can get over 160 miles on the clock before you're looking for a gas station......Cliff
Nuff said about all that, but what we do know is, that you can get the early 103's well into the 40mpg range with a few bolts ons and custom tuning. Well worth the effort, and at least when you ride with your buds you can get over 160 miles on the clock before you're looking for a gas station......Cliff