Wet Sumping
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 16
From: Nor Cal
Wet Sumping
What is the correct way to check for sumping ? I have done a few searches and found a lot of answers.
I have checked for sumping with motor hot, bike upright on jack. Pulled crankcase plug and got about 5 oz. of oil each time, letting it drain for about 15 minutes. I have done it twice, same results.
In my searches, I have read that an acceptable amount is between 3-8 oz. Should the bike be upright, or on the Jiffy Stand?
Bike is a '00 FLTRI, 95", SE plate with hydraulic tensioners.
I have checked for sumping with motor hot, bike upright on jack. Pulled crankcase plug and got about 5 oz. of oil each time, letting it drain for about 15 minutes. I have done it twice, same results.
In my searches, I have read that an acceptable amount is between 3-8 oz. Should the bike be upright, or on the Jiffy Stand?
Bike is a '00 FLTRI, 95", SE plate with hydraulic tensioners.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 55
From: Bay Area
Aside from pulling the plug, a riding symptom is a lack of power then it comes back. I was told the oil level in the CC raises and slows down the crank, then when it drains out the power comes back.
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 16
From: Nor Cal
Can sumping be intermittent? I'm asking because it seems I have good power, but my mpg sucks, 25- 28 mpg, oil temp varies between 170-250.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 55
From: Bay Area
The way I was told about sumping from Bob at RC Cycles, was when a guy in front of me on the dyno that just had a build and the HP was high once then it was lower then up again. He explained that when the cc fills with oil the motor is fighting the resistance of the oil until it drains back to the tank, then you get more power, until it fills again and the cycle starts over.
He said it is a common occurrence after a build because the o ring gets cut when installing the oil pump. So then mine started doing it and I was a ways from home and a shop told me it wont hurt to ride it Id just have low power and poor fuel mileage, so when I got home I had the oring replaced and it sumped no more.
Im not so sure on not hurting anything, because I had a rub mark where a geroter touched the housing and removed the red anodized coating, and that was with a welded crank.
What part of Norcal you in?
He said it is a common occurrence after a build because the o ring gets cut when installing the oil pump. So then mine started doing it and I was a ways from home and a shop told me it wont hurt to ride it Id just have low power and poor fuel mileage, so when I got home I had the oring replaced and it sumped no more.
Im not so sure on not hurting anything, because I had a rub mark where a geroter touched the housing and removed the red anodized coating, and that was with a welded crank.
What part of Norcal you in?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,530
Likes: 6,410
From: Honah Lee
Counting the cam galley which is separate except for the vent thru the bearings, there is probably 16-20 oz. Remember, that windage of the oil lubricates the cylinder wall, the left crank bearing and right inner cam bearings. It is being constantly dumped on and pulled out..
If you bump the old pressure, it will cause the overheating of the oil since the oil jets will be working at idle. TCs are designed to only use the cooling oil jets at running rpm speed (above idle for as designed 10-18 psi release) Also, the cam galley is separated since the top end head area is lubricated from oil up the pushrod tubes. This is dumped into a drain hole that runs down a passage in the cylinder with the dowel tube.
This separation evacuates the head better to prevent excess liquid oil getting into the vent system. However, you are always going to have some. Especially at high rpm levels or if you let bike sit for a few weeks between rides and the coated lines drain down. However, do not be alarmed. This liquid oil is way too heavy to be drawn into the throttle body. Only atmospheric pressure is rushing in the vacuum created by the drawdown of the piston and is no where near the fore of the piston pushing the exhaust out. Just wipe the drool off the old girl's chin and keep getting up.
If you bump the old pressure, it will cause the overheating of the oil since the oil jets will be working at idle. TCs are designed to only use the cooling oil jets at running rpm speed (above idle for as designed 10-18 psi release) Also, the cam galley is separated since the top end head area is lubricated from oil up the pushrod tubes. This is dumped into a drain hole that runs down a passage in the cylinder with the dowel tube.
This separation evacuates the head better to prevent excess liquid oil getting into the vent system. However, you are always going to have some. Especially at high rpm levels or if you let bike sit for a few weeks between rides and the coated lines drain down. However, do not be alarmed. This liquid oil is way too heavy to be drawn into the throttle body. Only atmospheric pressure is rushing in the vacuum created by the drawdown of the piston and is no where near the fore of the piston pushing the exhaust out. Just wipe the drool off the old girl's chin and keep getting up.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Sep 14, 2018 at 11:11 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 16
From: Nor Cal
The way I was told about sumping from Bob at RC Cycles, was when a guy in front of me on the dyno that just had a build and the HP was high once then it was lower then up again. He explained that when the cc fills with oil the motor is fighting the resistance of the oil until it drains back to the tank, then you get more power, until it fills again and the cycle starts over.
He said it is a common occurrence after a build because the o ring gets cut when installing the oil pump. So then mine started doing it and I was a ways from home and a shop told me it wont hurt to ride it Id just have low power and poor fuel mileage, so when I got home I had the oring replaced and it sumped no more.
Im not so sure on not hurting anything, because I had a rub mark where a geroter touched the housing and removed the red anodized coating, and that was with a welded crank.
What part of Norcal you in?
He said it is a common occurrence after a build because the o ring gets cut when installing the oil pump. So then mine started doing it and I was a ways from home and a shop told me it wont hurt to ride it Id just have low power and poor fuel mileage, so when I got home I had the oring replaced and it sumped no more.
Im not so sure on not hurting anything, because I had a rub mark where a geroter touched the housing and removed the red anodized coating, and that was with a welded crank.
What part of Norcal you in?
I assembled the motor myself, second SE Camplate I've done. I didn't have any problems with the first one I did on a Dyna I had. Which I put about 10k miles on it, trouble free.
I may open up the camchest and check things out. I could have misaligned the pump or tore the o-ring.
Still waiting on a answer on the correct way to check for sumping.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 185
From: Mountain West, Big Sky Country
Dan,
My understanding is pull the crankcase plug after the bike has sat overnight.
Bike should be upright and you should get no more than 8 oz.
Obviously be careful with that plug as it can crack the cases if overtighten.
I did my 04 a couple years agi and got 5 oz. I let it sit all day.
My mileage on my 04 is consistently 30 mpg at 70 mph or above
My experience
My understanding is pull the crankcase plug after the bike has sat overnight.
Bike should be upright and you should get no more than 8 oz.
Obviously be careful with that plug as it can crack the cases if overtighten.
I did my 04 a couple years agi and got 5 oz. I let it sit all day.
My mileage on my 04 is consistently 30 mpg at 70 mph or above
My experience
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 16
From: Nor Cal
I haven't done a long freeway ride since I've done the 95". Do a lot of riding in the hills and around town. Maybe I just twist my right wrist to much.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 55
From: Bay Area
Were neighbors. Im in San Carlos. I found this on another post about sumping.
Two main reasons for sumping are mis-alignment of the oil pump and/or poor o-ring seal between the pump and the scavenge port in the crank case. You need to pull the cam plate and I would replace the o-ring. Apparantly this step can be tricky, bob at RC told me hes had dealers bring brand new bikes with a cut oring. Hope this helps.
Two main reasons for sumping are mis-alignment of the oil pump and/or poor o-ring seal between the pump and the scavenge port in the crank case. You need to pull the cam plate and I would replace the o-ring. Apparantly this step can be tricky, bob at RC told me hes had dealers bring brand new bikes with a cut oring. Hope this helps.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post