Headers...confused
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 633
Likes: 42
From: Charlotte NC
Headers...confused
I have RC components slips ons...love'm. I'd really like to go ahead with a full system. Been Googling and YouTube'n diff stuff. I thought I was set but now I'm confused with choices.
I heard a dudes SG the other night with S&S true dual headers. He has the exact same slip ons I do. It was much LOUDER. Wasn't truly expecting that. I get it will be be louder but I'm not sure that's what I'm after.
I guess I'm looking for deeper tone (feel in your chest sorta thing) rather than hot rod loud. Now I'm looking at diff slip ons and such and came across V&H oversized 450s...which are kinda similar to RC Components 4.5s. I don't want ear piercing hot rod loud. Wondering if I should just leave well alone?
What are some thoughts about a deep sounding system that will give some gains? Anyone specifically with RC slip ons that put a good header on?
Will I lose torque ditching the stock headers?
Sorry for a ton of questions. Experience and opinions welcome.
-smalls
I heard a dudes SG the other night with S&S true dual headers. He has the exact same slip ons I do. It was much LOUDER. Wasn't truly expecting that. I get it will be be louder but I'm not sure that's what I'm after.
I guess I'm looking for deeper tone (feel in your chest sorta thing) rather than hot rod loud. Now I'm looking at diff slip ons and such and came across V&H oversized 450s...which are kinda similar to RC Components 4.5s. I don't want ear piercing hot rod loud. Wondering if I should just leave well alone?
What are some thoughts about a deep sounding system that will give some gains? Anyone specifically with RC slip ons that put a good header on?
Will I lose torque ditching the stock headers?
Sorry for a ton of questions. Experience and opinions welcome.
-smalls
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 597
Likes: 20
From: ohio
Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but if he has a true dual header with the same muffs as u, yes it will be noticeably louder, think true duals are the loudest but u lose a little torque I believe. Installed jackpot mufflers on my 14 sgs when I got it, then went to comp baffles, then finally purchased their 2-1-2 ceramic head pipe to eliminate the cat. Definitely gave it quite a bit more sound with the new header, not too obnoxious but a nice deep rumble cruising and pretty loud under hard acceleration. If u like the sound of your current mufflers but want a bit louder/deeper I would suggest a fuel moto head pipe
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 633
Likes: 42
From: Charlotte NC
Everything I've read and talked with agree that true duals will lose torque. I agree tho, using a 2-1-2 power dual or power max from RC might give a diff sound.
Fuel Moto you say??
Fuel Moto you say??
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
your stock header has a catalytic converter inside it- the S&S header you heard does not.
that is the reason for the increased noise.
some riders use a header with no cat combined with the stock mufflers and are happy with the sound.
sound is subjective- figure what type of sound and levels you are comfy with.
I am on the quieter side, I like to use the radio and loud pipes are no fun 3 hours into a 10 hour ride
videos from your computer speakers are useless.
get to a dealer bbq or bike night and hear other bikes.
in most cases you get what you get when you buy pipes, but some of us use adjustable systems with can be altered for performance response or sound characteristics. I use supertrapp style disk system mufflers with no cat headers.
in general a 2/1/2 header will provide the best balance of power at various rpm ranges...you can spend $600 or get a stock header with the cat removed off ebay for $150
the 2/1/2 will scavenge like a 2/1 enhancing torque at low rpms, and the large volume works well for horsepower at higher rpms levels.
in general a true dual or straight pipe will make better more at higher rpm ranges- sacrificing power at low rpm ranges- this is the best bet if you ride at 6000 rpms all the time
a 2/1 will generally make better torque- power off the line- perhaps sacrificing higher rpm horsepower.
the difference on a stock motor between any of these 3 design types is probably within 5%
large differences are realized combined with performance cams, heads etc etc etc. which most of us will never do
just allowing higher flow through the motor ( open exhaust, hi flow intake) is good for 7 to 10 horsepower.
the flow is restricted from the factory to control noise emissions
mike
that is the reason for the increased noise.
some riders use a header with no cat combined with the stock mufflers and are happy with the sound.
sound is subjective- figure what type of sound and levels you are comfy with.
I am on the quieter side, I like to use the radio and loud pipes are no fun 3 hours into a 10 hour ride
videos from your computer speakers are useless.
get to a dealer bbq or bike night and hear other bikes.
in most cases you get what you get when you buy pipes, but some of us use adjustable systems with can be altered for performance response or sound characteristics. I use supertrapp style disk system mufflers with no cat headers.
in general a 2/1/2 header will provide the best balance of power at various rpm ranges...you can spend $600 or get a stock header with the cat removed off ebay for $150
the 2/1/2 will scavenge like a 2/1 enhancing torque at low rpms, and the large volume works well for horsepower at higher rpms levels.
in general a true dual or straight pipe will make better more at higher rpm ranges- sacrificing power at low rpm ranges- this is the best bet if you ride at 6000 rpms all the time
a 2/1 will generally make better torque- power off the line- perhaps sacrificing higher rpm horsepower.
the difference on a stock motor between any of these 3 design types is probably within 5%
large differences are realized combined with performance cams, heads etc etc etc. which most of us will never do
just allowing higher flow through the motor ( open exhaust, hi flow intake) is good for 7 to 10 horsepower.
the flow is restricted from the factory to control noise emissions
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; Aug 18, 2015 at 12:28 PM.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 633
Likes: 42
From: Charlotte NC
Mike, that was a pretty solid answer. Thanks for taking the time.
I def agree on the touring and too much noise riding long days. I think that's my hang up...just don't want to regret the purchase.
I def agree on the touring and too much noise riding long days. I think that's my hang up...just don't want to regret the purchase.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 633
Likes: 42
From: Charlotte NC
Specifically, anyone with RC components slips ons and what head pipe did you use? Just curious. Thanks.
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The only way you will "see" any loss of TQ is if you are either
A. A pro racing at the track looking for thousandths... and then you may make it up with high RPM HP
or
B. "Paper" racing with dyno sheets
For regular riding, your *** dyno won't know the difference, red light racing is more about the skill of the rider.
Listen to a bunch, find out what YOU like, figure out what they are, and proceed accordingly.
A. A pro racing at the track looking for thousandths... and then you may make it up with high RPM HP
or
B. "Paper" racing with dyno sheets
For regular riding, your *** dyno won't know the difference, red light racing is more about the skill of the rider.
Listen to a bunch, find out what YOU like, figure out what they are, and proceed accordingly.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 320
From: Vancouver, WA
I agree with mkguitar and Chip (SafetyMan). The difference between true duals and power duals is negligible and subjective too. I put on V&H HO's, keeping the stock head pipe and they are 4.5's like the OS 450's but with the step up in diameter halfway down as opposed to all the way like the OS are. I did notice a dip in low end torque when I switched to those from Street Cannons but that immediately went the other way when I installed the FP3. Personally, I like all the low end I can get so that's why I'm going with Power Duals. I was told by V&H that the OS 450's will take away a bit more low end torque than the HO's too.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
The only way you will "see" any loss of TQ is if you are either
A. A pro racing at the track looking for thousandths... and then you may make it up with high RPM HP
or
B. "Paper" racing with dyno sheets
For regular riding, your *** dyno won't know the difference, red light racing is more about the skill of the rider.
Listen to a bunch, find out what YOU like, figure out what they are, and proceed accordingly.
A. A pro racing at the track looking for thousandths... and then you may make it up with high RPM HP
or
B. "Paper" racing with dyno sheets
For regular riding, your *** dyno won't know the difference, red light racing is more about the skill of the rider.
Listen to a bunch, find out what YOU like, figure out what they are, and proceed accordingly.