nitrogen in tires?
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 79
Likes: 4
From: North Carolina
Asked today at my local HD dealer about "topping off" my tires with nitrogen if needed as I am taking the bike in for some service later this week. Their response was $19.99 to top off, unless I have purchased new tires from them recently & had the $60 nitrogen service agreement option paid up front whereby they will "top off" your tires with nitrogen "free" once a month for 1 year. ...Really??
I recently purchased a 2003 Road King & the tires look brand new! After checking, they were manufactured in 2008. They are still soft rubber with no dry rot & are in great shape. I had the HD dealer look them over as well. They recommended to keep riding them as they were still in great shape. The previous owner said they were filled with nitrogen from day one. (Service records record them being installed in 2008.) I will change them soon, but a shame as they look brand new! Not sure if nitrogen is the key to them not dry rotting, but something has sure kept them in great shape.
I recently purchased a 2003 Road King & the tires look brand new! After checking, they were manufactured in 2008. They are still soft rubber with no dry rot & are in great shape. I had the HD dealer look them over as well. They recommended to keep riding them as they were still in great shape. The previous owner said they were filled with nitrogen from day one. (Service records record them being installed in 2008.) I will change them soon, but a shame as they look brand new! Not sure if nitrogen is the key to them not dry rotting, but something has sure kept them in great shape.
Last edited by Brytam; Feb 2, 2016 at 08:55 PM.
Asked today at my local HD dealer about "topping off" my tires with nitrogen if needed as I am taking the bike in for some service later this week. Their response was $19.99 to top off, unless I have purchased new tires from them recently & had the $60 nitrogen service agreement option paid up front whereby they will "top off" your tires with nitrogen "free" once a month for 1 year. ...Really??
I recently purchased a 2003 Road King & the tires look brand new! After checking, they were manufactured in 2008. They are still soft rubber with no dry rot & are in great shape. I had the HD dealer look them over as well. They recommended to keep riding them as they were still in great shape. The previous owner said they were filled with nitrogen from day one. (Service records record them being installed in 2008.) I will change them soon, but a shame as they look brand new! Not sure if nitrogen is the key to them not dry rotting, but something has sure kept them in great shape.
I recently purchased a 2003 Road King & the tires look brand new! After checking, they were manufactured in 2008. They are still soft rubber with no dry rot & are in great shape. I had the HD dealer look them over as well. They recommended to keep riding them as they were still in great shape. The previous owner said they were filled with nitrogen from day one. (Service records record them being installed in 2008.) I will change them soon, but a shame as they look brand new! Not sure if nitrogen is the key to them not dry rotting, but something has sure kept them in great shape.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 2,419
From: USA
Asked today at my local HD dealer about "topping off" my tires with nitrogen if needed ... Their response was $19.99 to top off, unless I have purchased new tires from them recently & had the $60 nitrogen service agreement option paid up front whereby they will "top off" your tires with nitrogen "free" once a month for 1 year. ...Really??
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,286
Likes: 3,428
From: Idaho Panhandle
Me too. I have mine specially mixed for me. High dry mountain air. My American elites don't leak so pressure is mostly lost when I check it. I run 39/39 cold and I have checked them after a long ride in 100F. They were about 41/40.
If I raced, I'd consider it. If you gave me a pressure tank of it, I consider it. If you provided me a filter for my airpump that removed O2 and H2O, I'd consider it. If you started a thread on nitrogen, I'd consider it and reject it.
In May/June I am doing a 4000 mile ride, Utah/NM etc. I'll switch to dry air while there as I am sure my Northwest mountain air contains too much water vapor. I am afraid that if I rode to and from NM with the PNW air in my tires that they will rot off before I get home.
I am happy we are discussing this critical motorcycle topic. I have been complacent about my tires, merely being concerned with pressure and wear, never giving the "air" inside the tires its proper respect. But I don't race, so how was I supposed to know all the dangers of compressed air. I was wasting my time worried about the compensator, speeding tickets, people on cel phones and left turners.
Now my tongue is firmly stuck in my cheek and I can't get it out.
If I raced, I'd consider it. If you gave me a pressure tank of it, I consider it. If you provided me a filter for my airpump that removed O2 and H2O, I'd consider it. If you started a thread on nitrogen, I'd consider it and reject it.
In May/June I am doing a 4000 mile ride, Utah/NM etc. I'll switch to dry air while there as I am sure my Northwest mountain air contains too much water vapor. I am afraid that if I rode to and from NM with the PNW air in my tires that they will rot off before I get home.
I am happy we are discussing this critical motorcycle topic. I have been complacent about my tires, merely being concerned with pressure and wear, never giving the "air" inside the tires its proper respect. But I don't race, so how was I supposed to know all the dangers of compressed air. I was wasting my time worried about the compensator, speeding tickets, people on cel phones and left turners.
Now my tongue is firmly stuck in my cheek and I can't get it out.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,681
Likes: 8,413
From: Utah
I don’t use nitrogen in my tires, if it was available at service stations I might.
The reason nitrogen is used to inflate tires was to get rid of any moisture content of air in the tire. All gases expand when they are heated but the moisture in a tire will cause the pressure to increase even more. This is explained below:
” Fundamentally; air, oxygen and nitrogen will all behave exactly the same in terms of pressure change for each 10 degrees of temperature change. However temperature alone is not the whole story.
Ambient air contains moisture, nitrogen does not. If moisture is present it contributes to a greater change in pressure simply because at lower temperatures water condenses to become a liquid. The liquid form of water occupies very little volume and contributes only a negligible pressure to the tire. But at higher temperatures, such as those in a running tire, water evaporates inside the tire and becomes a gas which increases pressure in the tire.”
Nitrogen is an inert gas which means it’s not chemically reactive. When used as a test medium or to fill tires this means it won’t cause oxidation resulting in scaling or deposits that can contaminate the system being tested.
I checked 2 sources, Praxair and Air Gas and their Industrial N2 is 99.995% pure. Some tire shops have Nitrogen Generators that may be suspect for purity but most I saw in web search were 99%+.
22 degrees in Vernal and another storm on the way.
The reason nitrogen is used to inflate tires was to get rid of any moisture content of air in the tire. All gases expand when they are heated but the moisture in a tire will cause the pressure to increase even more. This is explained below:
” Fundamentally; air, oxygen and nitrogen will all behave exactly the same in terms of pressure change for each 10 degrees of temperature change. However temperature alone is not the whole story.
Ambient air contains moisture, nitrogen does not. If moisture is present it contributes to a greater change in pressure simply because at lower temperatures water condenses to become a liquid. The liquid form of water occupies very little volume and contributes only a negligible pressure to the tire. But at higher temperatures, such as those in a running tire, water evaporates inside the tire and becomes a gas which increases pressure in the tire.”
Nitrogen is an inert gas which means it’s not chemically reactive. When used as a test medium or to fill tires this means it won’t cause oxidation resulting in scaling or deposits that can contaminate the system being tested.
I checked 2 sources, Praxair and Air Gas and their Industrial N2 is 99.995% pure. Some tire shops have Nitrogen Generators that may be suspect for purity but most I saw in web search were 99%+.
22 degrees in Vernal and another storm on the way.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 2,419
From: USA
If moisture is present it contributes to a greater change in pressure simply because at lower temperatures water condenses to become a liquid. The liquid form of water occupies very little volume and contributes only a negligible pressure to the tire. But at higher temperatures, such as those in a running tire, water evaporates inside the tire and becomes a gas which increases pressure in the tire.
In order to have enough water in there to generate sufficient steam volume you'd have to about a cup of it at least. Something that is not sloshing around in a tire, even if it was mounted out doors in the rain.
At the most, you have about 1/4 a teaspoons worth of water in a tire when it's mounted using standard compressed air. And that's pretty vastly over estimated.
That little bit of moisture never gets heated sufficiently to boil. Otherwise, it just evaporates and condenses ever so slightly, as a vapor or gas, just like the other gasses in there.
No he's not. You can and do have moisture in air unless it is highly filtered or treated. It's called humidity and it is not steam. It is vapor not liquid or fully gas. Yes it will and does fluctuate with temperature.
Still no major benefit in the regular motorcycle tire.
Still no major benefit in the regular motorcycle tire.
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Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,681
Likes: 8,413
From: Utah
You're talking steam. Ie, boiling the water. That's not going to happen in a 30 psi tire until about 275 degrees F, which is a temperature the tire will not see. So it's a fictitious argument when it comes to tires.
In order to have enough water in there to generate sufficient steam volume you'd have to about a cup of it at least. Something that is not sloshing around in a tire, even if it was mounted out doors in the rain.
At the most, you have about 1/4 a teaspoons worth of water in a tire when it's mounted using standard compressed air. And that's pretty vastly over estimated.
That little bit of moisture never gets heated sufficiently to boil. Otherwise, it just evaporates and condenses ever so slightly, as a vapor or gas, just like the other gasses in there.
In order to have enough water in there to generate sufficient steam volume you'd have to about a cup of it at least. Something that is not sloshing around in a tire, even if it was mounted out doors in the rain.
At the most, you have about 1/4 a teaspoons worth of water in a tire when it's mounted using standard compressed air. And that's pretty vastly over estimated.
That little bit of moisture never gets heated sufficiently to boil. Otherwise, it just evaporates and condenses ever so slightly, as a vapor or gas, just like the other gasses in there.
No he's not. You can and do have moisture in air unless it is highly filtered or treated. It's called humidity and it is not steam. It is vapor not liquid or fully gas. Yes it will and does fluctuate with temperature.
Still no major benefit in the regular motorcycle tire.
Still no major benefit in the regular motorcycle tire.
I agree that the benefit from dry N2 is negligible for us. I was just trying to pass on what I had found.
Bill
I do enjoy reading some of this.
Much of what I do for a living is directly related to the relationship of gases at different pressures, temperatures, and moisture levels. Yes, PURE gases have different characteristic than AIR. If you truly care to do the math (not really worth the time) you can calculate the benefits of using pure nitrogen vs air in the motorcycle tire of a recreational or average rider.
Pretty sure you'll find it cost more time (valuable) to do the calculation, money to get the nitrogen fill, and effort (valuable) if done properly, than you will ever benefit.
BUT, if it make you feel good do it.
Have you tried the Harley Synthetic - Screaming Eagle AIR?
Much of what I do for a living is directly related to the relationship of gases at different pressures, temperatures, and moisture levels. Yes, PURE gases have different characteristic than AIR. If you truly care to do the math (not really worth the time) you can calculate the benefits of using pure nitrogen vs air in the motorcycle tire of a recreational or average rider.
Pretty sure you'll find it cost more time (valuable) to do the calculation, money to get the nitrogen fill, and effort (valuable) if done properly, than you will ever benefit.
BUT, if it make you feel good do it.
Have you tried the Harley Synthetic - Screaming Eagle AIR?
Last edited by TSheff; Feb 4, 2016 at 04:40 PM.