Possible o2 sensor issue
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
Great, then you know that the ECM doesn't run closed loop all of the time anyway. actually most base maps do run closed loop in the normal riding area
That said, a good map is more than sufficient for the average ride.
a good map tuned for the bike once flashed will not need the O2 sensors until something changes.
the ECM using the O2 sensors to lean it out to the insanely lean factory map. actually stoich 14.6 is not insanely lean, It is the most efficient burn and best mileage. However it is not the best performance.
And amazingly enough I still know enough to let go of the starter button once the engine fires. Go figure, eh?
It's really funny with EFI and the arguments about a very precise mixture how we ever got by with the simple carburator. Yet we did, and to ones bike blew up.
don't forget points and condenser, vac advance etc. YES, things were much different back then.
That said, a good map is more than sufficient for the average ride.
a good map tuned for the bike once flashed will not need the O2 sensors until something changes.
the ECM using the O2 sensors to lean it out to the insanely lean factory map. actually stoich 14.6 is not insanely lean, It is the most efficient burn and best mileage. However it is not the best performance.
And amazingly enough I still know enough to let go of the starter button once the engine fires. Go figure, eh?
It's really funny with EFI and the arguments about a very precise mixture how we ever got by with the simple carburator. Yet we did, and to ones bike blew up.
don't forget points and condenser, vac advance etc. YES, things were much different back then.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 565
Likes: 152
From: Calgary, Alberta
Great, then you know that the ECM doesn't run closed loop all of the time anyway. actually most base maps do run closed loop in the normal riding area
yes they do except when accelerating or under any really dynamic condition. That said we are talking about piggy back tuners and most prefer to run open loop
That said, a good map is more than sufficient for the average ride.
a good map tuned for the bike once flashed will not need the O2 sensors until something changes.
then you get a new map. That's the penalty for running a piggy back tuner, I'm not saying it's perfect or forever. It is what it is.
the ECM using the O2 sensors to lean it out to the insanely lean factory map. actually stoich 14.6 is not insanely lean, It is the most efficient burn and best mileage. However it is not the best performance.
yeah, maybe insanely lean was overstated. But the 14.6 or 14.7 that's ideal is not ideal for the average internal combustion engine. Temps tend to get excessive. It's clear that a mix when accelerating must be different than that at cruise but generally speaking can be handled sufficiently with an open loop tune. Maybe not to EPA standards, but sufficiently nevertheless.
And amazingly enough I still know enough to let go of the starter button once the engine fires. Go figure, eh?
It's really funny with EFI and the arguments about a very precise mixture how we ever got by with the simple carburator. Yet we did, and to ones bike blew up.
don't forget points and condenser, vac advance etc. YES, things were much different back then.
Now we have EFI, map based ecm tuning, computer this/that. a whole lot of different challenges. accept the new reality or go retro with the carburetor.
yes they do except when accelerating or under any really dynamic condition. That said we are talking about piggy back tuners and most prefer to run open loop
That said, a good map is more than sufficient for the average ride.
a good map tuned for the bike once flashed will not need the O2 sensors until something changes.
then you get a new map. That's the penalty for running a piggy back tuner, I'm not saying it's perfect or forever. It is what it is.
the ECM using the O2 sensors to lean it out to the insanely lean factory map. actually stoich 14.6 is not insanely lean, It is the most efficient burn and best mileage. However it is not the best performance.
yeah, maybe insanely lean was overstated. But the 14.6 or 14.7 that's ideal is not ideal for the average internal combustion engine. Temps tend to get excessive. It's clear that a mix when accelerating must be different than that at cruise but generally speaking can be handled sufficiently with an open loop tune. Maybe not to EPA standards, but sufficiently nevertheless.
And amazingly enough I still know enough to let go of the starter button once the engine fires. Go figure, eh?
It's really funny with EFI and the arguments about a very precise mixture how we ever got by with the simple carburator. Yet we did, and to ones bike blew up.
don't forget points and condenser, vac advance etc. YES, things were much different back then.
Now we have EFI, map based ecm tuning, computer this/that. a whole lot of different challenges. accept the new reality or go retro with the carburetor.
Spend your money on a closed loop solution, your choice, and sure, best performance. For my modest needs, the FP LCD works perfectly.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
Yes the flash tuners are the most expensive and hardest to use therefore most people use an add on to improve on stock at a more modest price.
OK, let us end the debate.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 565
Likes: 152
From: Calgary, Alberta
one last comment, did I say I was closed loop in all areas? I am tuned for performance which is some open loop, some timing adjustments, definitely VE adjustments and I let the ECM monitor it all with the O2 sensors.
right, you did not say that, and that wasn't my point. The point was that it doesn't ever have to run closed loop. You want the best performance, and I just want my bike to run right. Seems we both get what we want by different means.
Yes the flash tuners are the most expensive and hardest to use therefore most people use an add on to improve on stock at a more modest price.
as mentioned, depends on your desired end result.
OK, let us end the debate.
right, you did not say that, and that wasn't my point. The point was that it doesn't ever have to run closed loop. You want the best performance, and I just want my bike to run right. Seems we both get what we want by different means.
Yes the flash tuners are the most expensive and hardest to use therefore most people use an add on to improve on stock at a more modest price.
as mentioned, depends on your desired end result.
OK, let us end the debate.
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