upgrades to '04 ultra. Cams, tensioners....
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Grand Haven, Mi.
upgrades to '04 ultra. Cams, tensioners....
Buddy of mine picked up a '04 ultra last week.
Bike has 56,000 miles, in great shape and runs good.
Stage 1 intake, stock headers with slip ons. (not sure brand)
No history if tensioners had been replaced, so I'm going to open it up to verify or replace as needed.
But, while I'm in there, I might as well upgrade cams.
Thinking SE-204's or Andrews 21's.
Along with a PC-V, or fuel pack.
Not building a screamer, just looking for a little more ***.
No big bores, no head work.
Opinions on cam choices please.......
Also, read about upgrading to hydraulic cam place. Can I get a newer style stock Harley plate, or will that not bolt up to 88" ??
Obviously, aftermarket is better, but looking for budget options rt now.
Bike has 56,000 miles, in great shape and runs good.
Stage 1 intake, stock headers with slip ons. (not sure brand)
No history if tensioners had been replaced, so I'm going to open it up to verify or replace as needed.
But, while I'm in there, I might as well upgrade cams.
Thinking SE-204's or Andrews 21's.
Along with a PC-V, or fuel pack.
Not building a screamer, just looking for a little more ***.
No big bores, no head work.
Opinions on cam choices please.......
Also, read about upgrading to hydraulic cam place. Can I get a newer style stock Harley plate, or will that not bolt up to 88" ??
Obviously, aftermarket is better, but looking for budget options rt now.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Buddy of mine picked up a '04 ultra last week.
Bike has 56,000 miles, in great shape and runs good.
Stage 1 intake, stock headers with slip ons. (not sure brand)
No history if tensioners had been replaced, so I'm going to open it up to verify or replace as needed.
But, while I'm in there, I might as well upgrade cams.
Thinking SE-204's or Andrews 21's.
Along with a PC-V, or fuel pack.
Not building a screamer, just looking for a little more ***.
No big bores, no head work.
Opinions on cam choices please.......
Also, read about upgrading to hydraulic cam place. Can I get a newer style stock Harley plate, or will that not bolt up to 88" ??
Obviously, aftermarket is better, but looking for budget options rt now.
Bike has 56,000 miles, in great shape and runs good.
Stage 1 intake, stock headers with slip ons. (not sure brand)
No history if tensioners had been replaced, so I'm going to open it up to verify or replace as needed.
But, while I'm in there, I might as well upgrade cams.
Thinking SE-204's or Andrews 21's.
Along with a PC-V, or fuel pack.
Not building a screamer, just looking for a little more ***.
No big bores, no head work.
Opinions on cam choices please.......
Also, read about upgrading to hydraulic cam place. Can I get a newer style stock Harley plate, or will that not bolt up to 88" ??
Obviously, aftermarket is better, but looking for budget options rt now.
The late model cam plate (96/103), gears, and chains will bolt in. You will need to use conversion cams (Andrews 21N's or similar) as you retain the small inner cam journal, but the outer is larger than the stock 88. Sometimes you can find deals on line.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,976
Likes: 49
From: Northern California
Where do you come up with cost like this ??
I replaced tensioners, bearings, inner cam bearings, oil bypass, did Andrews 21 cams,S&S lifters and quickee pushrods, bought all the tools required and added the auto tune to my PCV for under your numbers.
OP, I am so happy with the Andrews 21 cams in my 2004 I stopped thinking about heads and bigger pistons. It has quite a lot more torque low in the RPMs and makes the power right where my motor lives, it is no race motor but it is a tractor in comparison to the stock ones.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Grand Haven, Mi.
Where do you come up with cost like this ??
I replaced tensioners, bearings, inner cam bearings, oil bypass, did Andrews 21 cams,S&S lifters and quickee pushrods, bought all the tools required and added the auto tune to my PCV for under your numbers.
OP, I am so happy with the Andrews 21 cams in my 2004 I stopped thinking about heads and bigger pistons. It has quite a lot more torque low in the RPMs and makes the power right where my motor lives, it is no race motor but it is a tractor in comparison to the stock ones.
I replaced tensioners, bearings, inner cam bearings, oil bypass, did Andrews 21 cams,S&S lifters and quickee pushrods, bought all the tools required and added the auto tune to my PCV for under your numbers.
OP, I am so happy with the Andrews 21 cams in my 2004 I stopped thinking about heads and bigger pistons. It has quite a lot more torque low in the RPMs and makes the power right where my motor lives, it is no race motor but it is a tractor in comparison to the stock ones.
Thank you. That's just what I was looking for.
I wasn't concerned with the cost posted above.
I know the cost of parts, mainly looking to avoid the cost of a $500 cam plate.
I'll just replace the spring tensioners and call it good.
Put that money towards a tune.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 69
From: Orange County, NY
Budget is pretty reasonable. bigheadted doesn't have the cam plate on his list, so that will add a significant amount, especially if you do the SE plate.
As already mentioned, if you put the late model plate in, you'll need conversion cams (suffix "N" on part number). If you use the SE plate, cams for your year will work fine. You will also need the new oil pump if upgrading plates.
I have the andrews 26 cams, and I love them. I'll save you some research though. The 21 comes on at around 1700 rpms and runs right up to 5000 rpms, the 26 comes on at around 1800 thru 5200 rpms.
I run 26's, and I love them.
As already mentioned, if you put the late model plate in, you'll need conversion cams (suffix "N" on part number). If you use the SE plate, cams for your year will work fine. You will also need the new oil pump if upgrading plates.
I have the andrews 26 cams, and I love them. I'll save you some research though. The 21 comes on at around 1700 rpms and runs right up to 5000 rpms, the 26 comes on at around 1800 thru 5200 rpms.
I run 26's, and I love them.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,976
Likes: 49
From: Northern California
You do not need the late model cam plate, there are plenty of bikes with the stock type stuff with loads of miles.
replace the tensioners,I went Cyco and got both for 75 bucks even HD is only 140
inner cam bearings, about 25 bucks or less
cams come with bearings, 235 bucks
Baisley oil bypass plunger and spring for a bump in pressure was under 30 bucks
Gasket kit for the whole shebang was not too spendy
If oil pressure and scavenging is a big concern replace the oil pump and I was advised a Daytona pump is a good one for under 150 bucks.
Again the Andrews 21s worked out very well for me, my pal has a 88 incher with 203 cams and it seems a bit softer in the lower RPM range but has more above 4500 and pulls harder up top. When we "race" I jump him at first then we are fairly even for a bit and then he pulls away slowly. I do carry 25-40 pounds in tools, water and crap always, have a Shield and lowers, he prefers wind and outweigh him by 40 pounds too so I bet if I stripped it down and weights were equal I would eat him up !! hahaha makes me think I should have gone with the 26s !
replace the tensioners,I went Cyco and got both for 75 bucks even HD is only 140
inner cam bearings, about 25 bucks or less
cams come with bearings, 235 bucks
Baisley oil bypass plunger and spring for a bump in pressure was under 30 bucks
Gasket kit for the whole shebang was not too spendy
If oil pressure and scavenging is a big concern replace the oil pump and I was advised a Daytona pump is a good one for under 150 bucks.
Again the Andrews 21s worked out very well for me, my pal has a 88 incher with 203 cams and it seems a bit softer in the lower RPM range but has more above 4500 and pulls harder up top. When we "race" I jump him at first then we are fairly even for a bit and then he pulls away slowly. I do carry 25-40 pounds in tools, water and crap always, have a Shield and lowers, he prefers wind and outweigh him by 40 pounds too so I bet if I stripped it down and weights were equal I would eat him up !! hahaha makes me think I should have gone with the 26s !
Last edited by bigheadted; Apr 15, 2016 at 09:17 AM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,814
Likes: 5,120
From: SW Ohio
Here's a rear tensioner removal tool that doesn't require the cams to come out of the cam plate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoAI...ature=youtu.be
His contact info is in the comments section of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoAI...ature=youtu.be
His contact info is in the comments section of the video.
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Road Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 69
From: Orange County, NY
bigheadted is right, you don't NEED the cam plate. But than again, you don't NEED cams or upgraded pushrods or anything to that extent.
When I did my swap, I changed out the cam plate to the SE model. Why, because the early model tensioners have a history of premature wear. Why take the chance? Your new cams will put more wear and tear on your valvetrain and components because they are modified from what the factory specs are. It's just an opinion, everyone has one. Who's is right? Who knows, it doesn't matter.
Remember to include all required fluids in your budget, also, bearings require pullers and a press, and also a few extra dollars just in case....
When I did my swap, I changed out the cam plate to the SE model. Why, because the early model tensioners have a history of premature wear. Why take the chance? Your new cams will put more wear and tear on your valvetrain and components because they are modified from what the factory specs are. It's just an opinion, everyone has one. Who's is right? Who knows, it doesn't matter.
Remember to include all required fluids in your budget, also, bearings require pullers and a press, and also a few extra dollars just in case....
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 69
From: Centerville, ohio
Where do you come up with cost like this ??
I replaced tensioners, bearings, inner cam bearings, oil bypass, did Andrews 21 cams,S&S lifters and quickee pushrods, bought all the tools required and added the auto tune to my PCV for under your numbers.
OP, I am so happy with the Andrews 21 cams in my 2004 I stopped thinking about heads and bigger pistons. It has quite a lot more torque low in the RPMs and makes the power right where my motor lives, it is no race motor but it is a tractor in comparison to the stock ones.
I replaced tensioners, bearings, inner cam bearings, oil bypass, did Andrews 21 cams,S&S lifters and quickee pushrods, bought all the tools required and added the auto tune to my PCV for under your numbers.
OP, I am so happy with the Andrews 21 cams in my 2004 I stopped thinking about heads and bigger pistons. It has quite a lot more torque low in the RPMs and makes the power right where my motor lives, it is no race motor but it is a tractor in comparison to the stock ones.
Harley shoes 106.00
inner cam bearings 15.00
18404-08 push rod 150.00
Comp 850 70.00
21 cam w/brg you said 235.00
inner bearing r&r tool 100.00
labor to press brg ?
Cost for parts $ 701.00
Minimum for cam change, I elected to use the SE push rods to make it easy.