Upgrade questions
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 14
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From: Ridgefield, WA
Upgrade questions
So I have the majority of the parts to upgrade my 03' Ultra Classic from an 88" to 98", cams (.590 lift), ported/polished heads, new pushrods/lifters, pistons/rings, power vision tuner, etc. Thank you again Kirby at VeeTwin Performance for the head work and assembling this kit for me!
My questions are about the stock cam plate and oil pump.
-Is it an absolute necessity to replace them both or will I be alright sticking with the stock?
-What are the pros/cons of either other than the cost?
-What are the advantages of hydraulic vs. spring cam tensioners?
My understanding is HD upgraded the oil pump in 07' to increase oil flow. This has been the only thing stopping me from moving forward with my build at this time, trying to take any precautions I can now to prevent issues later on.
Thanks ahead of time for any and all help
My questions are about the stock cam plate and oil pump.
-Is it an absolute necessity to replace them both or will I be alright sticking with the stock?
-What are the pros/cons of either other than the cost?
-What are the advantages of hydraulic vs. spring cam tensioners?
My understanding is HD upgraded the oil pump in 07' to increase oil flow. This has been the only thing stopping me from moving forward with my build at this time, trying to take any precautions I can now to prevent issues later on.
Thanks ahead of time for any and all help
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 146
From:
I've been running an '02 with 590 lift Dave Mackie cams among other things with the stock cam plate and oil pump for 40,000 miles. No issues at all. When I have it apart again I will go with the later oil pump, but the stocker has been adequate. I run gear drive cams. I would ditch the spring loaded tensioners. The hydraulic upgrade works great. Personally I prefer gears and my pinion shaft runout is in spec to do it.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 671
Likes: 168
From: Ontario, Canada
I went with the Cyco tensioner shoes on my stock tensioner arms and installed a Drag Specialties oil pump. I have much better oil pressure and it seems to run cooler. It also completely eliminated the oil coming from the air filter, I'm assuming because of the increases scavenging.
Are your cams chain or gear? The design of the cam that you bought will dictate whether you go gear, OE chain with either Cyco shoes or HD hydraulic "upgrade", or the 07up conversion.
Are your cams chain or gear? The design of the cam that you bought will dictate whether you go gear, OE chain with either Cyco shoes or HD hydraulic "upgrade", or the 07up conversion.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
It would be a good idea to ask Kirby that question and hear what he recommends! The stock 88 set-up was replaced on the 96 engines for a variety of reasons, not least wear of the chain tensioners. The 96 set-up comes with a complete redesign, plus better components and a higher output oil pump. Your extra 10 cubic inches are going to give you a significant boost in performance and I can't help thinking that the later set-up would be a wise investment. Let us know what Kirby suggests!
Last edited by grbrown; Nov 11, 2016 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Grammar!
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Ridgefield, WA
I went with the Cyco tensioner shoes on my stock tensioner arms and installed a Drag Specialties oil pump. I have much better oil pressure and it seems to run cooler. It also completely eliminated the oil coming from the air filter, I'm assuming because of the increases scavenging.
Are your cams chain or gear? The design of the cam that you bought will dictate whether you go gear, OE chain with either Cyco shoes or HD hydraulic "upgrade", or the 07up conversion.
Are your cams chain or gear? The design of the cam that you bought will dictate whether you go gear, OE chain with either Cyco shoes or HD hydraulic "upgrade", or the 07up conversion.
I stayed with the chain driven cams you avoid problems with crank runout on gear driven since I have not been into the bottom end of this bike since I purchased it last year. looking for the quickest turnaround possible on this build as my bike is my only means of transportation at this time
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,894
Likes: 8,002
From: poway
There typically aren't any issues with the 03 cranks as far as runout goes.. The cranks didn't get cheap until the 05 models. There have been issues with 03 models blowing the left side main when pumped up. As I understand it retorquing the comp nut to the new factory spec helps but HD modified that bearing to make it stronger also.. Trimming 0.060 off the comp nut guarantees adequate clamp.
While you don't need an oil pump unless there is something wrong with it, you are probably better off using a conversion cam and late plate/pump or if you have the early chain drive cams already, use the SE conversion kit that includes an SE pump and plate that uses late tensioners.
I personally like gears on the early TCs but they can rattle if the lash is loose and whine if the lash is tight. You sometimes have to buy another gear to get the lash right.
While you don't need an oil pump unless there is something wrong with it, you are probably better off using a conversion cam and late plate/pump or if you have the early chain drive cams already, use the SE conversion kit that includes an SE pump and plate that uses late tensioners.
I personally like gears on the early TCs but they can rattle if the lash is loose and whine if the lash is tight. You sometimes have to buy another gear to get the lash right.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
There is nothing wrong with your stock plate and pump. Put some Cyco shoes in there and run it.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,784
Likes: 100
From: Pasadena TX
You say you've already got cams in hand, so you're stuck with whatever camplate the cams are for. The later model camplates have no outboard bearing, and the outboard o.d. of the cams is 1" as opposed to the inboards 3/4". With the new late model plates comes the hydraulic tensioners and the better oil pump. Andrews does make conversion cams for the late model plates in the earlier engine, but if you're set on your cam choice you're stuck with the spring loaded tensioners.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,894
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From: poway
You say you've already got cams in hand, so you're stuck with whatever camplate the cams are for. The later model camplates have no outboard bearing, and the outboard o.d. of the cams is 1" as opposed to the inboards 3/4". With the new late model plates comes the hydraulic tensioners and the better oil pump. Andrews does make conversion cams for the late model plates in the earlier engine, but if you're set on your cam choice you're stuck with the spring loaded tensioners.
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