Stage 1 question
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 493
Likes: 92
From: NJ
Man, this has Magnuson-Moss act written all over it...
Supporter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,787
Likes: 5,609
From: along the shore of Mishigami
Think about this. Put your stuff on gradually i.e. headers , a few hundred miles later, the slip-ons, then intake and last the tuner. Let the newer ECMs slowly adjust the tune or let the dealer re-flash the ECM then get home and do the FP3. If you have warranty work you make sure the tuner is not on the bike. That way get what you are looking for.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
That is an opinion- you should read through the MM act, it is thick but interesting.
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; Mar 3, 2017 at 07:31 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 314
From: Ohio
That is an opinion- you should read through the MM act, it is thick but interesting.
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
with the ECM flashed AND an FP3 or other device, you have 2 computer systems trying to outguess and correct for each other.
a 'flash" is performed one time and is generally inferior for adjustability
Mike
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 493
Likes: 92
From: NJ
That is an opinion- you should read through the MM act, it is thick but interesting.
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
The part which is of interest to us is that a manufacturer cannot require the owner to BUY services or supplies ( like oil and filters) but may use equivalents. in order to keep the warranty valid.
This was a practice some years ago ( and BMW/Mini settled millions for trying this recently- because their buyers are stupid).
You keep a warranty valid by being able to demonstrate that services were done using correct type supplies by a person qualified to do so. So I have ASE training and save the rec'ts for the oil and filters I buy.
a usual part of a stage 1 is altering the computer controls:
beyond design constraints ( rev limit, fuel and spark) and emissions standards.
that right there will knock your warranty in the head and it won;t stand.
The MMA applies to manufacturer warranties.
If the dealer wants to offer a supplemental warranty, they can- but it has nothing to do with the manufacturer and MMA doesn;t apply.
what the dealer may warrant is that the parts and services offered by them will not affect the reliability of the machine within the warranty period.
Mike
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 307
From: Houston, Texas
Get to the 1,000 mile mark first. If you ride at all, it won't take long. Any real problems with the bike will show up by then and there will be absolutely no questions asked about the warranty. Then, do what you want. If your really worried, pay the dealer to do the first service and they will log it in the computer that all is well.
Keep in mind that if there is a problem, they will have to show that whatever mod you made caused the problem. They are not going to deny a warranty claim on your electrical system or your transmission for example because you put on some slip on's and cut the cat out of the exhaust.
Also, a good dealer is going to do it's best to take care of you. It's in their best interest to keep you happy. They get paid from the MOCO to do the warranty work and they also keep a customer happy for repeat business and accessory purchases.
Keep in mind that if there is a problem, they will have to show that whatever mod you made caused the problem. They are not going to deny a warranty claim on your electrical system or your transmission for example because you put on some slip on's and cut the cat out of the exhaust.
Also, a good dealer is going to do it's best to take care of you. It's in their best interest to keep you happy. They get paid from the MOCO to do the warranty work and they also keep a customer happy for repeat business and accessory purchases.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,183
Likes: 836
From: KMHT KFMY
Now I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, just my opinion, but bikes prior to 2017 that have modifications then have a warranty claim have do be done on a case by case basis and as outlined under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
If your paint starts peeling on the read fender, the MoCO can not void your warranty because you have a K&N air cleaner installed.
The MoCo has to prove that what you did to modify the bike was the cause of the defect, and they have to notify you in writing, etc etc etc.
They can not, on bikes prior to 2017,unilaterally void your factory warranty and be on firm ground in a court room.
I would opine that the consent decree is illegal because it goes against the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, but it would take someone with deeper pockets than I to fight that battle and the MoCo seems happy enough to get out of paying warranty claims at the expense of some of their " for race use only" tuner sales.