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Old Apr 3, 2018 | 03:09 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by lyork
How are your legends on the front?? That’s my next purchase and I’m leaning that direction. It’ll be either Pro Action or Ohlins on the back
I recently purchased and installed custom built to my specs Bitubo preload and rebound adjustable shocks. They were a tremendous value, significantly less than all the others, and they ride fantastic.

That said, I strongly considered JRI, Ohlins, and Pro Action (Revo shocks while seemingly awesome were just not reasonably priced for my consideration), and had I been willing to spend that kind of money, I probably would have gone with Pro Action because of their lifetime warranty, made in America, and their overall rider reviews for ride quality and customer service.

Good luck to all in their suspension quest.
 
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 04:22 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by H92064
- jump to 6:10 in the video, to hear the Progressive Suspensions rep. state unequivocally that once one installs the cartridge kit, no further “fork maintenance” is required. Once and done.
Which has already been explained several times over is not so! Their cartridges may require no maintenance, but.....
 
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 06:47 AM
  #53  
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I think thats a bold statement by Progressive about Showa forks , how does inserting a cartridge in the fork keep the fork bushings and seals from wearing ?
 
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 07:18 AM
  #54  
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- jump to 6:10 in the video, to hear the Progressive Suspensions rep. state unequivocally that once one installs the cartridge kit, no further “fork maintenance” is required. Once and done

I don't know if you are really that confused, or just want to be right even when you are wrong. Look at the attached picture, I circled what the cartridge replaces. I also showed you what is still there. Bushings and seals wear out when the fork tube moves up and down inside the lower fork leg. The bushings and seals don't change rather it is a cartridge or dampening rod controlling the movement. Progressive has you install oil with their cartridge not for the cartridge as it is sealed and doesn't need it, but for lubrication for the seals and bushings. This oil will become contaminated and need changing, bushings and seals are wear items and will wear out.
 
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Last edited by tj316; Apr 4, 2018 at 07:19 AM.
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 07:06 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by tj316
- jump to 6:10 in the video, to hear the Progressive Suspensions rep. state unequivocally that once one installs the cartridge kit, no further “fork maintenance” is required. Once and done

I don't know if you are really that confused, or just want to be right even when you are wrong. Look at the attached picture, I circled what the cartridge replaces. I also showed you what is still there. Bushings and seals wear out when the fork tube moves up and down inside the lower fork leg. The bushings and seals don't change rather it is a cartridge or dampening rod controlling the movement. Progressive has you install oil with their cartridge not for the cartridge as it is sealed and doesn't need it, but for lubrication for the seals and bushings. This oil will become contaminated and need changing, bushings and seals are wear items and will wear out.
Great explanation, but you're wasting your time......

He first said if you install cartridges, no further "fork maintenance" is required in post #12 of this thread.

Howard corrected him, and actually took the time to say why, and show some pics.

He wanted to be right, decided to argue with Howard, and it ended with Howard telling him he didn't know what he was talking about. Since then he's been digging for something to prove he is right...

Several people (myself included, but I intentionally pushed a few of his buttons, which didn't help at all) have explained it to him.... Cartridges may be maintenance free, but forks still need maintenance...

He's too invested in his misinformation to care at this point.... he just needs to be right....
 
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 07:41 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by hattitude
Great explanation, but you're wasting your time......

He first said if you install cartridges, no further "fork maintenance" is required in post #12 of this thread.

Howard corrected him, and actually took the time to say why, and show some pics.

He wanted to be right, decided to argue with Howard, and it ended with Howard telling him he didn't know what he was talking about. Since then he's been digging for something to prove he is right...

Several people (myself included, but I intentionally pushed a few of his buttons, which didn't help at all) have explained it to him.... Cartridges may be maintenance free, but forks still need maintenance...

He's too invested in his misinformation to care at this point.... he just needs to be right....
A few points of clarification.....

- It really seems to me that “hattitude” and “tj316” are feeling the “need to be right”.....
- When Howard responded, he posted pictures, to which I questioned for clarity sake, whether those were from an OEM spring fork setup, OR, a fork cartridge setup.....the question was ignored, and no answer or clarity was given....
- I merely made a statement which I believed was accurate, and which I provided video corroboration from Progressive Suspensions....I didn’t make this up folks, nor did I take credit for it. I provided information, which I was given, which my local mechanic / a recognized bike builder also corroborated, no more, no less.....ultimately the fact is there are in fact reputable “experts” out there who apparently disagree with the resident self appointed or anointed experts here on this forum, with regard to this particular subject, and nobody (so far) in this discussion has offered anything more than their opinion (with the because they say so attitude).......everyone would benefit from being open and considerate of differing perspectives......

- I am NOT the one claiming to be right - hattitude, tc316, Howard, and a few others are holding that role down exceptionally well.....I offered information for the OP and or anyone to consider and do with as they choose.....

- The question remains to be answered with reputable reference, when replacing oem fork internal parts with replacement cartridge inserts, how much different are the remaining wear surfaces, bushings, and seals enduring stress and or wear?......notice I am NOT opposed to the notion, I am simply asking or offering that there may just be significant difference in the stresses and wear in the oem configuration versus the replacement cartridge configuration - this is the point that has been either overlooked or outright dismissed as a possibility.......

In the end, we all have choices, and each of us gets to live with the choices we make. Some of us look for a wide array of reputable information when attempting to make educated decisions......

So, to the original poster, good luck, there is just a bunch of information available to help you make the best choice for you, with regard to suspension options/upgrades, and this holds true for everyone else “invested” in this or any other topic.....

Ride on......


 

Last edited by HM_SanDiego; Apr 4, 2018 at 08:08 PM.
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 08:32 PM
  #57  
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H92064, lets go with your theory. If you look at the picture I posted the fork tube #19 slides up and down inside the lower fork legs(#25 & #26). The seals and bushings are on the outside of the fork tube #19. The dampening rod or when you change it the cartridge is on the inside of the fork tube #19, so therefore regardless of what you use they do not touch the seals and bushings. So the fork tube goes up and down inside the lower legs no matter if it has a cartridge or dampening rod inside it. So now explain to everyone why the bushings and seals wear out when they have a dampening rod inside them and don't when a cartridge is inside it. How does the outside of the fork tube know what's inside it to tell the bushings not to wear out ?
 
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Old Apr 4, 2018 | 08:54 PM
  #58  
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I'm currently converting my forks to cartridges , I rebuilt them with new OEM kit's, bushings, seals , ect 18K ago , left side is the new bushing , right side are the condition of my current bushings.

These are not part of the cartridge , the internals don't matter much to these bushings or the seals , they wear simply from the forks moving up and down , no internal parts contact them besides oil , just the fork tube moving inside the slider creates this wear along with forward motion forces.

As far as I know Progressive , at least this video , is the only cartridge maker to claim it makes the forks maintenance free.
 
Attached Thumbnails Shocks-img_2662.jpg   Shocks-img_2663.jpg  

Last edited by Stopit; Apr 4, 2018 at 08:57 PM.
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Old Apr 5, 2018 | 01:15 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by tj316
H92064, lets go with your theory. If you look at the picture I posted the fork tube #19 slides up and down inside the lower fork legs(#25 & #26). The seals and bushings are on the outside of the fork tube #19. The dampening rod or when you change it the cartridge is on the inside of the fork tube #19, so therefore regardless of what you use they do not touch the seals and bushings. So the fork tube goes up and down inside the lower legs no matter if it has a cartridge or dampening rod inside it. So now explain to everyone why the bushings and seals wear out when they have a dampening rod inside them and don't when a cartridge is inside it. How does the outside of the fork tube know what's inside it to tell the bushings not to wear out ?
Tim,

to to be clear, I shared information, but along with that, I asked questions. I have not attempted to claim or explain anything, other than additional information for all to consider.

So, to that end, with fork internals which have added dampening forces and pressures forcefully put upon them, is there the possibility that replacing those internals with fork cartridges, results in reduced pressures, wear, and maintenance on the remaining parts (upper and lower bushings, seals, and lubricating oil?

That is really the core of my questions, and again, being open to the idea in either direction, my intent was to consider all perspectives offered here. I can see the merits of all perspectives, but I can’t offer any conclusive data or information, as I have had my fork cartridges for less than 200 miles....

Originally Posted by Stopit
I'm currently converting my forks to cartridges , I rebuilt them with new OEM kit's, bushings, seals , ect 18K ago , left side is the new bushing , right side are the condition of my current bushings.

These are not part of the cartridge , the internals don't matter much to these bushings or the seals , they wear simply from the forks moving up and down , no internal parts contact them besides oil , just the fork tube moving inside the slider creates this wear along with forward motion forces.

As far as I know Progressive , at least this video , is the only cartridge maker to claim it makes the forks maintenance free.

this is is great information. Forgive me, but I can’t tell from the pictures how much wear is indicated from the old upper and lower your pictures are showing. So, if I am understanding you correctly, now, you have new bushings on the right installed with the new cartridges? It will be interesting to see what the bushings look like in 18-20k miles, with the cartridges, based on the recommended fork rebuild maintenance schedule for forks.

Great discussion points, and I appreciate you posting the pictures.
 
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Old Apr 5, 2018 | 07:47 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by H92064
It will be interesting to see what the bushings look like in 18-20k miles, with the cartridges, based on the recommended fork rebuild maintenance schedule for forks.
They will look exactly the same as if the stock damper rods were still being used!
 
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