07 Road King classic crank case problem
Here is my input - hopefully Max will weigh in as well. Sorry for my late response - work has been taking a lot of my time.
At 30k you are at a crossroads. If you are going to install new rings, you have to break the glaze on the cylinders. If you do not, the new rings may never seat and you will have actually built in a problem. If you're not going to break the glaze, I would just use the old rings again as they have bedded in at a microscopic level. Ideally you should have the pistons and cylinders measured while it is apart - if there is a lot of taper, it's not worth the new rings and breaking the glaze. If they don't measure out well, it's either slap it back together or do it properly and bore to next oversize.
At this mileage, you could also consider going to the next oversize piston. But you get into the where do we stop issue. Do you plan on doing cams in the future? These are all the things to consider now with the labor you have in it. If you do pistons, you could even have the valves done and basically start with a fresh top end which would also be nice.
If it goes back together with the original rings, it's going to need rings eventually - but that could be a long time down the road. If you install new rings and don't break the glaze, I believe you're going to have it apart for oil consumption or poor cylinder sealing prematurely.
If it's all overwhelming to you and you have no machine shop to break the glaze with a ball hone and measure the cylinders, I would probably just put the original rings back in and seal it all up. Run it and be sure that everything is good. Get past the scared time of thinking "I hope I didn't miss anything" - I assure you that you will be nervous for a while. Then plan for your eventual overhaul way down the road. In the off chance you missed something, the only failure will be the OE parts with mileage on them - not any shiny new parts.
If you think someone has already been in there, you should verify the pistons are not already oversize so you can verify you have the correct size and make of rings. Just take the time to think your options through.
Also if you removed a circlip from each wrist pin, you must replace those as well. Be sure to blow all the oil out of the holes in the head for the breather bolts and fasteners or you will have a whole additional world of problems. Read the manual, take your time, do it right.
At 30k you are at a crossroads. If you are going to install new rings, you have to break the glaze on the cylinders. If you do not, the new rings may never seat and you will have actually built in a problem. If you're not going to break the glaze, I would just use the old rings again as they have bedded in at a microscopic level. Ideally you should have the pistons and cylinders measured while it is apart - if there is a lot of taper, it's not worth the new rings and breaking the glaze. If they don't measure out well, it's either slap it back together or do it properly and bore to next oversize.
At this mileage, you could also consider going to the next oversize piston. But you get into the where do we stop issue. Do you plan on doing cams in the future? These are all the things to consider now with the labor you have in it. If you do pistons, you could even have the valves done and basically start with a fresh top end which would also be nice.
If it goes back together with the original rings, it's going to need rings eventually - but that could be a long time down the road. If you install new rings and don't break the glaze, I believe you're going to have it apart for oil consumption or poor cylinder sealing prematurely.
If it's all overwhelming to you and you have no machine shop to break the glaze with a ball hone and measure the cylinders, I would probably just put the original rings back in and seal it all up. Run it and be sure that everything is good. Get past the scared time of thinking "I hope I didn't miss anything" - I assure you that you will be nervous for a while. Then plan for your eventual overhaul way down the road. In the off chance you missed something, the only failure will be the OE parts with mileage on them - not any shiny new parts.
If you think someone has already been in there, you should verify the pistons are not already oversize so you can verify you have the correct size and make of rings. Just take the time to think your options through.
Also if you removed a circlip from each wrist pin, you must replace those as well. Be sure to blow all the oil out of the holes in the head for the breather bolts and fasteners or you will have a whole additional world of problems. Read the manual, take your time, do it right.
Last edited by Ed Ramberger; May 1, 2018 at 10:00 PM.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 123
Likes: 8
From: Ohio
Break the glaxe
I appreciate you getting back to me no worries I have all the time in the world just waiting on parts.When youre saying break the glaze you mean honing the cylinder?Im going to have my local shop hone it Im not ready to bore it out just yet thats a year or two down the road. Im sure they can tell me what size ring I appreciate you getting back to me no worries I have all the time in the world just waiting on parts.they recommend if I need to go up .005 -.010 etc. I guess I could bore it out and run a larger piston but then I have to change the cams And have to change the valves out?.A lot more money at this point correct?Ive definitely opened up a big can of worms.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2018
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From: Ohio
Size up
I guess I shouldve asked if I go ahead and just have the cylinders completely gone over bumping up to the next size meaning just say a .010 or a .020 can I get away with running stock cams no tuner valves etc.? The question being at what point do I have to worry about all of that?How big can I go and You start components?
Breaking the glaze removes a minimal amount of material and is simply preparing the cylinder wall surface to seat a new ring. Will not be a problem if everything is in tolerance.
Boring obviously is a larger piston.
Neither of these require a cam or remapping (unless you changed to a higher compression piston - then mapping would be necessary for optimal performance)
Boring obviously is a larger piston.
Neither of these require a cam or remapping (unless you changed to a higher compression piston - then mapping would be necessary for optimal performance)
Last edited by Ed Ramberger; May 2, 2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: poway
There are any number of ways to go.
If the cylinders and pistons looked good, I probably would have slipped the cylinders back on and run it.. Rings rotate slowly on the pistons when working correctly. OP says it might come down in a couple years for improvements. It would be the cheapest way to go. I seen this done without issue to one of my bikes while under warranty. it was done at 22K and I put another 10K on it without ring issues. Condition of the cylinders is important.
HD pistons /cylinders are set up tight so they don't rattle. Honing and rering can create enough clearance so that the pistons slap a little. Won't hurt anything but some HD riders hate it. I actually prefer to torque plate and hone with a fixed position hone and bring the cylinders back to round. This pretty much guarantees a rattle but ring seal is good. Still I don't have any problem with a ball hone if the cylinders look good.
Honing/boring to first oversize restores back to better than new condition since the cylinders are now seasoned and clearances are reset.
There is always doing a motor build. Big bore, cams, heads seeing as how its already apart. While many say do a 107 / 110, a 103 is still pretty good bang for the buck.
Any one of these options is good.
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From: poway
BTW, With the rag in the motor. I'd look closely at the oil jets to make sure the were damaged from the rag spinning around.. They are likely OK as the crank sensor is on the left side of the flywheel and the piston jets are on the right side. I would not remove unless something looks wrong.
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 123
Likes: 8
From: Ohio
Next step
I appreciate the feedback . Unfortunately I went ahead and pulled both Pistons out of the cylinders no big deal at this point Im gonna have them checked to see if theres any issue at the local shop. Worst case scenario Ill just have the local shop round out the Cylinders and go up to the next ring size.Im trying to keep the cost down obviously this is a pretty stupid mistake and setback on my part. Wasnt expecting this in the first couple months of owning the bike. I do plan to do a big bore kit sometime down the road. Money would be the issue now so thats gonna have to wait.The first piston I pulled out I took the rings off of the piston would that matter If I was to slap it back together with the original rings?I highly doubt I would do that. Like I said most likely just going to go up to the next to ring size to keep cost down at this point. Lesson learned and one good thing out of it atleast Ill know this bike inside and out before its all said and done .My service manual came in today unfortunately I Wasnt able to make it up there to pick it up before they closed.
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Cruiser
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From: Ohio
103???My head is spinning.
OK guys so you know my situation. My head is spinning.Since I already have these jugs off they are going to the machine shop no matter what. Can I go ahead and bore out to 103 run stock heads stock cams stock everything etc.?well it has a set of slip ons thats it..have it tuned or add a tuner and be done with it for now? And still have a little more room for improvement later on down the road by adding some cams exhaust head work etc.?
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From: Clearwater, Idaho
OK guys so you know my situation. My head is spinning.Since I already have these jugs off they are going to the machine shop no matter what. Can I go ahead and bore out to 103 run stock heads stock cams stock everything etc.?well it has a set of slip ons thats it..have it tuned or add a tuner and be done with it for now? And still have a little more room for improvement later on down the road by adding some cams exhaust head work etc.?
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Cruiser
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From: Ohio
Crankcase pipe plug tourqe??So I had this pipe plug removed the one on the very front of the crank case. Ive heard horror stories of people cracking the cases by tightening this thing down. Is it OK to talk to you this back is this the correct crank
So I had this pipe plug removed the one on the very front of the crank case. Ive heard horror stories of people cracking the cases by tightening this thing down. Is it OK to talk to you this back is this the correct crank case pipe plug?