Dyno tune, no changes to spark timing?
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
Likes: 156
From: Big Sky Country
Dyno tune, no changes to spark timing?
I have a fresh built 107 that I ran a canned FM map on through break in period and took in to get dyno tune last week. Has ported heads/larger valves, approx 10.25:1 comp with BW47 cams similar to Andrews 57 w/slightly higher lift/longer duration. Purchased intake/exhaust/power vision from FM years back and now Target Tune hoping to better compensate for altitude changes around here. The FM target tune map they provided was for 107 w/their level B heads and Woods 777, so just something close to get me started and it ran pretty crappy but after a couple auto tunes was good enough to get by through break in. I researched tuners in this area and found one that seemed to have a good rep and tuned for good power overall and not just WOT runs for peak figures.
After dyno the power is smoother and has better torque curve without a noticeable dip from 3-3.5K, but peak figures virtually unchanged (<1-2 torque/hp) and was a bit underwhelmed after ride, and still has some hesitation off idle/coast. Compared maps and found there no change to ignition timing--none at all. Was told by FM to get a dyno tune because auto tune/target tune wasn't really designed to tune spark, so am left wondering how it's possible canned map didn't need or wouldn't benefit from adjustment to ignition timing especially when it doesn't even match standard FM build/cams. Any comments, suggestions appreciated...
After dyno the power is smoother and has better torque curve without a noticeable dip from 3-3.5K, but peak figures virtually unchanged (<1-2 torque/hp) and was a bit underwhelmed after ride, and still has some hesitation off idle/coast. Compared maps and found there no change to ignition timing--none at all. Was told by FM to get a dyno tune because auto tune/target tune wasn't really designed to tune spark, so am left wondering how it's possible canned map didn't need or wouldn't benefit from adjustment to ignition timing especially when it doesn't even match standard FM build/cams. Any comments, suggestions appreciated...
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 307
From: mid Michigan
My bike is way different but I asked my tuner why he took my timing back to stock from what I had(+2 almost across-the-board). He said it doesn't make any more power with it. I told that I thought with the Cam's opening sooner it would be better, he said it doesn't work that way. So I left it alone , but mine runs awesome everywhere even though I only had 2 more horsepower & 7 more torgue with the cam change( baby cam Andrew tw 21) on the old mm system.
Last edited by xcbullet; Jun 17, 2018 at 04:32 PM.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
Likes: 156
From: Big Sky Country
Would be great to hear from anyone that's had a dyno tune done and was able to compare maps before and after, thanks.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
Likes: 156
From: Big Sky Country
Tuner told me today they do not adjust ignition timing... I understand per earlier response sometimes this may not always be necessary, but w/add'l cubes and cams I'm doubtful that's the case here. Also asked about hesitation/stutter off idle, and was told bike running too rich and he had adjusted as much as possible but hadn't helped. Saw they'd pulled all the warmup enrichment off above 0 degrees, but they also changed injectors to 4.25 (from 4.35), and I find it hard to believe that's appropriate--especially since by my reckoning that ought to make it run even more rich...?
They suggested I get rid of power vision and target tune and buy product they sell that's just a key to let them tune ecm directly, and that's another $620 by the time they tune again. I'm gonna call Fuelmoto tomorrow and see if they might have any suggestions or maybe even take a look at maps.
Starting to think this entire project may have been a mistake. Caveat emptor...
They suggested I get rid of power vision and target tune and buy product they sell that's just a key to let them tune ecm directly, and that's another $620 by the time they tune again. I'm gonna call Fuelmoto tomorrow and see if they might have any suggestions or maybe even take a look at maps.
Starting to think this entire project may have been a mistake. Caveat emptor...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,464
Likes: 624
If they don't adjust timing they should not call themselves a tuner. I'd find another shop.
Peak numbers may or may not change. Area under the curve with good linear power and smooth running is what you're looking for. Sounds like there is more meat on the bone with your bike. Once it's dialed in, you won't regret it. Finding a real tuner and not a dyno operator can be challenging. I drove 1200 miles round trip to get mine done.
Zach
Peak numbers may or may not change. Area under the curve with good linear power and smooth running is what you're looking for. Sounds like there is more meat on the bone with your bike. Once it's dialed in, you won't regret it. Finding a real tuner and not a dyno operator can be challenging. I drove 1200 miles round trip to get mine done.
Zach
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
what's that quote - good decisions come from experience and experience comes from bad decisions? at least now you know what questions to ask your potential new tuner before you hand him any of your hard earned money....
good luck.
good luck.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Big Sky Country
Thanks. I needed a reality check on my expectations; never would've occurred to me to ask that question. Seems like asking a tire shop if they balance tires they mount.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 645
Likes: 216
From: Minneapolis
Here is the front timing curve I am running in my 103. (just for an example) The 2nd is the delta between a map that I got from Fuel Moto, and what I ended up with after dynoing, and then working with timing to get detonation and knock events out on the street. You can certainly fix the timing on your own, without a dyno. You will need to learn how to look at logs, and make adjustments within WinPV, then go out and ride, log some more, and keep fine tuning. With having the Target Tune and the Power Vision, you have all the tools already. Download and install the DYNOJET POWER CORE software, and you will have everything you need to analyze the data/logs.
I would not go back to the dyno guy again. If you are running too rich, in spots, you already have what you need to fix it, just auto tune with you Target Tune.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
Likes: 156
From: Big Sky Country
Here is the front timing curve I am running in my 103. (just for an example) The 2nd is the delta between a map that I got from Fuel Moto, and what I ended up with after dynoing, and then working with timing to get detonation and knock events out on the street. You can certainly fix the timing on your own, without a dyno. You will need to learn how to look at logs, and make adjustments within WinPV, then go out and ride, log some more, and keep fine tuning. With having the Target Tune and the Power Vision, you have all the tools already. Download and install the DYNOJET POWER CORE software, and you will have everything you need to analyze the data/logs.
I would not go back to the dyno guy again. If you are running too rich, in spots, you already have what you need to fix it, just auto tune with you Target Tune.
I would not go back to the dyno guy again. If you are running too rich, in spots, you already have what you need to fix it, just auto tune with you Target Tune.