Fuel Moto PV & 2 1 exhaust tuning......
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: N. IL
Fuel Moto PV & 2 1 exhaust tuning......
I did a Dyno tune a few years ago with Frank at Drago's. Bike has run flawless. I now have switched from the stock decatted head pipe to a free or flowing two into one and was wondering if I need another Dyno session. I called fuel Moto this morning and they thought a few sessions of Auto-Tune would suffice. I took the bike out and it runs great. What am I looking for to know if the auto-tune is working at a successful level?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: San Diego, CA
This is real basic.... but...
The engine is an air pump.... you add the proper fuel, to the air the engine is pumping, for proper combustion...
The air that flows through the engine, or its Volumetric Efficiency, is contained in the VE tables.
The dyno tune you received, dealt with all the variables... volumetric efficiency, timing, and ultimately air fuel ratio (AFR) for your engine and it's mods....
By changing the exhaust, you probably just made a slight difference, in the air the engine pumps, in certain areas (or cells) of the tune. The fact that the bike still runs very well, shows that your tune is still pretty close for your current exhaust.
Follow the directions on FM's website for auto tuning... they have several pretty good videos that walk you through the process..
After an Auto Tune session, you will probably end up viewing the "hits" mode. This is what it looks like: FYI- all pics are from FM's AT video....
You hit exit, and go to the Auto Session screen. Before you save the info learned by hitting the "export learned" button on this screen, look at the bottom of the header at the top of the screen. you will see what was learned in the Auto Tune session....
In the example below, " Learned VE:132 cells, avg 8%, max 15%".... means that of the 132 cells that learned from the auto tune session, there was an 8% avg change, and a max change of 15%. You ideally want to run several auto tune sessions until the average learned is 4 or 5%.... once you get to 4 or 5% average learned, you may just start chasing your tail, due to changing conditions, with additional auto tune reps....
I have had tunes given to me by Fuel Moto that have gotten to 4% average change on one AT session.
I won't confuse this post with the efficiency of an Auto tune session with the stock O2 sensors (Auto Tune Basic) v an Auto tune session using wide band O2 sensors (Auto tune Pro), but to say I have the AT Pro module. I have done Auto Tune Sessions on FM maps with AT Pro. While the AT Pro will cover more cells , with more accuracy, than the stock narrow band sensors, I have still managed to get, with AT tune Pro on a FM tune, down to 3% average change on one AT Pro session...
I offer that bit of info, to demonstrate that the better the MAP you start with... the quicker the Auto tune process will be.... Since you're starting with a tune that was made for your exact bike, with your exact mods (except the exhaust), you may well get to 4% average change in one 20-30 minute Auto Tune Basic session....
While I'm no tuning expert, I have been to a Dyno Jet class, and read a lot of information on the subject. I have specifically used both AT Basic and AT Pro on 3 different bikes with my PowerVision... I find it interesting and kind of fun... I've yet to have an AT Basic, or AT Pro session make a bike run worse than it did before the AT session...
Just remember to save a copy of the tune you have now, before any changes.... and then if you mess something up, which is almost impossible to do (unless you change things yourself in the WInPv software)... you can always go back to the starting point to try again...
Enjoy....
The engine is an air pump.... you add the proper fuel, to the air the engine is pumping, for proper combustion...
The air that flows through the engine, or its Volumetric Efficiency, is contained in the VE tables.
The dyno tune you received, dealt with all the variables... volumetric efficiency, timing, and ultimately air fuel ratio (AFR) for your engine and it's mods....
By changing the exhaust, you probably just made a slight difference, in the air the engine pumps, in certain areas (or cells) of the tune. The fact that the bike still runs very well, shows that your tune is still pretty close for your current exhaust.
Follow the directions on FM's website for auto tuning... they have several pretty good videos that walk you through the process..
After an Auto Tune session, you will probably end up viewing the "hits" mode. This is what it looks like: FYI- all pics are from FM's AT video....
You hit exit, and go to the Auto Session screen. Before you save the info learned by hitting the "export learned" button on this screen, look at the bottom of the header at the top of the screen. you will see what was learned in the Auto Tune session....
In the example below, " Learned VE:132 cells, avg 8%, max 15%".... means that of the 132 cells that learned from the auto tune session, there was an 8% avg change, and a max change of 15%. You ideally want to run several auto tune sessions until the average learned is 4 or 5%.... once you get to 4 or 5% average learned, you may just start chasing your tail, due to changing conditions, with additional auto tune reps....
I have had tunes given to me by Fuel Moto that have gotten to 4% average change on one AT session.
I won't confuse this post with the efficiency of an Auto tune session with the stock O2 sensors (Auto Tune Basic) v an Auto tune session using wide band O2 sensors (Auto tune Pro), but to say I have the AT Pro module. I have done Auto Tune Sessions on FM maps with AT Pro. While the AT Pro will cover more cells , with more accuracy, than the stock narrow band sensors, I have still managed to get, with AT tune Pro on a FM tune, down to 3% average change on one AT Pro session...
I offer that bit of info, to demonstrate that the better the MAP you start with... the quicker the Auto tune process will be.... Since you're starting with a tune that was made for your exact bike, with your exact mods (except the exhaust), you may well get to 4% average change in one 20-30 minute Auto Tune Basic session....
While I'm no tuning expert, I have been to a Dyno Jet class, and read a lot of information on the subject. I have specifically used both AT Basic and AT Pro on 3 different bikes with my PowerVision... I find it interesting and kind of fun... I've yet to have an AT Basic, or AT Pro session make a bike run worse than it did before the AT session...
Just remember to save a copy of the tune you have now, before any changes.... and then if you mess something up, which is almost impossible to do (unless you change things yourself in the WInPv software)... you can always go back to the starting point to try again...
Enjoy....
Last edited by hattitude; Sep 3, 2019 at 01:32 PM.
This is real basic.... but...
The engine is an air pump.... you add the proper fuel, to the air the engine is pumping, for proper combustion...
The air that flows through the engine, or its Volumetric Efficiency, is contained in the VE tables.
The dyno tune you received, dealt with all the variables... volumetric efficiency, timing, and ultimately air fuel ratio (AFR) for your engine and it's mods....
By changing the exhaust, you probably just made a slight difference, in the air the engine pumps, in certain areas (or cells) of the tune. The fact that the bike still runs very well, shows that your tune is still pretty close for your current exhaust.
Follow the directions on FM's website for auto tuning... they have several pretty good videos that walk you through the process..
After an Auto Tune session, you will probably end up viewing the "hits" mode. This is what it looks like: FYI- all pics are from FM's AT video....
You hit exit, and go to the Auto Session screen. Before you save the info learned by hitting the "export learned" button on this screen, look at the bottom of the header at the top of the screen. you will see what was learned in the Auto Tune session....
In the example below, " Learned VE:132 cells, avg 8%, max 15%".... means that of the 132 cells that learned from the auto tune session, there was an 8% avg change, and a max change of 15%. You ideally want to run several auto tune sessions until the average learned is 4 or 5%.... once you get to 4 or 5% average learned, you may just start chasing your tail, due to changing conditions, with additional auto tune reps....
I have had tunes given to me by Fuel Moto that have gotten to 4% average change on one AT session.
I won't confuse this post with the efficiency of an Auto tune session with the stock O2 sensors (Auto Tune Basic) v an Auto tune session using wide band O2 sensors (Auto tune Pro), but to say I have the AT Pro module. I have done Auto Tune Sessions on FM maps with AT Pro. While the AT Pro will cover more cells , with more accuracy, than the stock narrow band sensors, I have still managed to get, with AT tune Pro on a FM tune, down to 3% average change on one AT Pro session...
I offer that bit of info, to demonstrate that the better the MAP you start with... the quicker the Auto tune process will be.... Since you're starting with a tune that was made for your exact bike, with your exact mods (except the exhaust), you may well get to 4% average change in one 20-30 minute Auto Tune Basic session....
While I'm no tuning expert, I have been to a Dyno Jet class, and read a lot of information on the subject. I have specifically used both AT Basic and AT Pro on 3 different bikes with my PowerVision... I find it interesting and kind of fun... I've yet to have an AT Basic, or AT Pro session make a bike run worse than it did before the AT session...
Just remember to save a copy of the tune you have now, before any changes.... and then if you mess something up, which is almost impossible to do (unless you change things yourself in the WInPv software)... you can always go back to the starting point to try again...
Enjoy....
The engine is an air pump.... you add the proper fuel, to the air the engine is pumping, for proper combustion...
The air that flows through the engine, or its Volumetric Efficiency, is contained in the VE tables.
The dyno tune you received, dealt with all the variables... volumetric efficiency, timing, and ultimately air fuel ratio (AFR) for your engine and it's mods....
By changing the exhaust, you probably just made a slight difference, in the air the engine pumps, in certain areas (or cells) of the tune. The fact that the bike still runs very well, shows that your tune is still pretty close for your current exhaust.
Follow the directions on FM's website for auto tuning... they have several pretty good videos that walk you through the process..
After an Auto Tune session, you will probably end up viewing the "hits" mode. This is what it looks like: FYI- all pics are from FM's AT video....
You hit exit, and go to the Auto Session screen. Before you save the info learned by hitting the "export learned" button on this screen, look at the bottom of the header at the top of the screen. you will see what was learned in the Auto Tune session....
In the example below, " Learned VE:132 cells, avg 8%, max 15%".... means that of the 132 cells that learned from the auto tune session, there was an 8% avg change, and a max change of 15%. You ideally want to run several auto tune sessions until the average learned is 4 or 5%.... once you get to 4 or 5% average learned, you may just start chasing your tail, due to changing conditions, with additional auto tune reps....
I have had tunes given to me by Fuel Moto that have gotten to 4% average change on one AT session.
I won't confuse this post with the efficiency of an Auto tune session with the stock O2 sensors (Auto Tune Basic) v an Auto tune session using wide band O2 sensors (Auto tune Pro), but to say I have the AT Pro module. I have done Auto Tune Sessions on FM maps with AT Pro. While the AT Pro will cover more cells , with more accuracy, than the stock narrow band sensors, I have still managed to get, with AT tune Pro on a FM tune, down to 3% average change on one AT Pro session...
I offer that bit of info, to demonstrate that the better the MAP you start with... the quicker the Auto tune process will be.... Since you're starting with a tune that was made for your exact bike, with your exact mods (except the exhaust), you may well get to 4% average change in one 20-30 minute Auto Tune Basic session....
While I'm no tuning expert, I have been to a Dyno Jet class, and read a lot of information on the subject. I have specifically used both AT Basic and AT Pro on 3 different bikes with my PowerVision... I find it interesting and kind of fun... I've yet to have an AT Basic, or AT Pro session make a bike run worse than it did before the AT session...
Just remember to save a copy of the tune you have now, before any changes.... and then if you mess something up, which is almost impossible to do (unless you change things yourself in the WInPv software)... you can always go back to the starting point to try again...
Enjoy....
Very well said, thank you
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
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