Hello guys,

please help!!!

i have a Road King 2010 / 96CI

when i bought it has an ODO of 36,000 km, and it has an issue with the Starter’s pinion! The seller replaced it on his own, and then after 1 year it was broken again!
i replaced it too with an aftermarket one, and the mechanic said it’s for higher torques!
However! It did run for few months and then it was broken again…
the mechanic replaced it again..
So! It ran for few months again, and it was broken 😂
i got a new clutch hub (including the ring gear) and a new pinion (Original HD)
I drove it for few times (1700 km on ODO) and the pinion is broken again!
The last time it was broken, the pinion did hit in the primary cover and made a small crack and even it hit the clutch hub and affected some aluminum parts.
i know it’s a long story!
but today it was the 5th time i am replacing the pinion gear in around 3 years!
At the first start it was very smooth,
i drove it for like 15 km, turned it off around 2~3 hours.. i tried to turn it on, it took like 4 trials to start again.

The bike is only running 50,000 km now.
so i have just used it for 14,000 km..

i did put it on a scanner today! Everything was showing its perfect (unless the O2 sensors) they are not working, so the mixture was rich!

the bike always runs smooth when it’s cold! But on a hot start, there is a Kickback and a noise…

also my exhausts are almost an empty pipe (i like its sound / this is how i bought it)
do you think i should replace the exhaust system? And since the O2 sensors aren’t working / the mixture is always rich and that’s why they are affecting the Hot start and that’s why the kickback is happening?

i have added Screamin eagle spark plugs
fuel filter was replaced
fuel pump was checked
no engine smoke at all
Zero knock (on the scanner)
The battery is new (high cranking)
the battery connections are good.

but while running for few kilometers, i can feel something like a knock! Or i can feel that the power isn’t like before! I have a Fatboy 96CI too and i can feel the power is much different between them!

do you guys think that i should check the compensator?
or what?

i am really lost! And i dont wanna spend anymore money on a pinion gear..

 

Helluva first post and without telling you about the Welcome area your first post should have been in _____
Your coming in on another guys thread. Might want to consider starting you own thread along with info and pics if possible

That's a lot of pinions and something has to be a cause.

Yes compensator is worth cking on along with chain alignment make sure it's running straight

Ya got any noises that sound like this https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...eae49898cf4a9b

WP

 

Hello Hello!
Thanks for your response!

How do i know that the chain is aligned?

in the previous clutch hub (i could see that the Big Gear ring was hitting the housing) do you think that could be the reason? The main bearing of the clutch shaft?

cheers,
maher

 

If the ring gear is hitting the housing sumptin is wore out or loose.

Your questions make me wonder if you should be working on this problem, consider taking it to a shop if you have one in your area.

You seemed to have ignored the other questions in my post.
There needs to be some effort on your part to get help.
As in a service manual studying so you use the correct terms for us to understand what ya got.

Again Start your own thread most likely here https://www.hdforums.com/forum/prima...ine-clutch-54/

good luck

 

If you are getting a loud bang when pushing the start button, especially on hart starts, I suspect you still have the factory compensator. It was too weak for the job and Harley finally put in an improved design starting 2011, I believe. The compensator moves with the chain and starter when you press the start button but the engine doesn't start to rotate until the compensator SLAMS against its travel limit. That sends a strong shock load back to the starter pinion and causes early failure. I am surprised no mechanics have checked for the improved compensator. If you need the new compensator you will also need a new rotor (the "flywheel" with the magnets cast into it. because the old rotor design is not compatible with the new compensator springs. I would recommend a new chain tensioner also. All of that with the new pinion should put you back on the road.

The new style compensator has bellevill springs. They look like parabolic reflectors with holes in the middle big enough for the engine crank shaft to fit inside. There are two big springs, two medium sized, and one small one. If your bike has that style, you probably need the shims which will tighten the springs a bit or replacement springs.

I have no suggestions regarding the marks inside the primary case, hopefully others will have some suggestions.

 

Also, if "today it was the 5th time i am replacing the pinion gear in around 3 years!" then you seem to be fixing the symptom of a bad pinion gear(s), and have not yet fixed the cause of the bad pinion gear(s).

You need to get a factory service manual and read it closely about the primary with it's components, and learn their relationships to each other.... or .... find a competent Harley mechanic to give it a good inspection...

Speaking of mechanics, your current mechanic is not very impressive based on your reports. I would not have much confidence in a mechanic who replaced a pinion gear for the third time in a couple years and didn't give the primary drive and starting systems a very close inspection...

Based on your reports of what has happened and what has been found/fixed, I suspect you have something else going on... and it is probably the cause of the pinion gears breaking..

Good luck with your diagnosis and repair...

PS- If you find at least part of your problem is a bad compensator, the best version of the "upgraded" comp from '06/'07 was finally introduced in 2014 with the Rushmore bikes. There is a retrofit kit for your 2010 bike. It is the current Screamin" Eagle Big Twin Compensator kit, part #40100061 for $459.95 list price. It will require you to glue an oil scoop into your outer primary cover (the process is in the instructions), and you will also need to upgrade your rotor as btsom has advised you, which is included in this kit.

 

Sounds like you have multiple problems...first and foremost your " mechanic" needs to find a different line of work. It sounds like the compensator is bad and needs to be replaced...the screaming eagle unit is a decent option. You said you had the clutch hub replaced so hopefully the bearing was replaced at the same time. Also the inner primary bearing might as well be replaced since its apart anyway and the bike has some miles on it. While it's apart the main drive gear bearing needs to "checked". You can do this with the transmission in neutral you can slowly spin the pulley both forward and backwards and feel for any rough spots, go slow and take your time. Theres definitely something going on in the primary that is causing the starter pinion to break. Find yourself a factory service manual or a mechanic that has some experience working on HD's because it seems like your current one is lacking in that department.
forgot to add...throw that primary chain tensioner in the garbage. It's known to overtighten and cause multiple problems in the primary. The the updated version is better and as usual there are many aftermarket options available.

 

So I am back guys! sorry for replying late,
I GOT a Lift, and I am working personally on the bike now,
I stripped the Bike since I am going to do a new paint job.



I Disassembled the Primary cover and was checking everything. this is the compensator that I currently have on the bike,


1- I removed the Compensator, The Wear on the cam and sprocket aren't really bad


But the middle spring has a slight play. I don't know if that's the cause.
What do you guys think?

2- The new Ring Gear is not hitting the housing at all, but I felt a very slight play of the whole Clutch Hub Assembly when the main nut was tight (Again it's a very very very slight play) / I don't know if i felt that slight play because the main clutch hub nut wasn't torqued to specs. (I never saw my mechanic using a torque wrench) but i will make sure to tighten things back to torque specs when i assemble those parts again.
So, I removed the clutch hub and got a digital dial gauge and checked the rotation of the race on the transmission shaft. the rotation is concentric. but also, I don't know how it's going to rotate under loads.

3- Chain Tensioner is in a good condition.

4- Crankshaft Bearing looks great too (Zero play on this side).

I am going to order the Screamin eagle Compensator kit and give it a try to see if the hot start issues will be fixed or not. if it will be fixed, I will replace my whole starter as a next phase since i am planning to add a full chrome starter.

But before ordering the compensator,
i have a question now regarding the transmission smoothness,
I have also a Fatboy 2008, running around 10,000 miles
When i drive it, the gear changes are very solid and smooth.
But my road king doesn't have really the same solid and smooth engagement of gears.

The main fork below has a play (Back & Forth) and also have a play towards the transmission.


Do you think i should open the transmission and check everything inside? and order all the parts one time?

Looking forward for your soonest feedback,

Cheers,
Maher

 

I'll offer a couple observations.... Your comp is the OEM #40296-06A, which was the "upgraded" comp for the 96" engines and was problematic. Luckily, they are now obsolete. I gave you the upgrade kit number in my post above. I saw your video, and the play looks like the springs in the spring cup attached to the rotor are pretty worn. I don't think it should be moving that easily by hand, but it has been a long time since I dealt with one of those comps... My feeling is the springs are bad, and a new style comp would be prudent... But like I said, I haven't played with one of them in a long time, and my memory is sketchy.. Hopefully someone with more experience or more recent experience with those first upgraded comps will chime in...

As to the clutch basket, again, an area where I have only a little experience. I don't think I understand your explanation correctly. Is it moving in a twisting forward/rearward movement like the clutch plates are slightly slipping? Or is it a wobble type of movement of the entire clutch basket? I don't think any wobble to the clutch basket would be proper. Again, we'll have to wait for a more informed opinion to wade in...

The "fork" you describe is the #33895-82E shift lever. Is the play on the splined connection between it and the #35081-06 shifter mechanism assembly post coming out of the trans case, or in the shifter mechanism assembly itself? Those levers are know to get loose and cause sloppy shifting. If left loose, the splines on the lever usually wear first, but can eventually wear the splines on the shifter mechanism assembly. Remove that lever and see if it was loose. That alone can cause sloppy shifting. Inspect the splines on both the lever, and the shifter mechanism assembly sticking out of the trans.

Hopefully, it was just loose. 2nd best scenario is the splines on the lever are worn. Then the repair is just a new lever, properly torqued tight. If the splines on the trans shifter mechanism are worn/damaged, it will need to be replaced. There is also a sleeve and oil seal around the shaft going into the trans that can make that shifter mechanism seem loose and cause trans oil to leak out.

If you need to remove/replace the trans shifter mechanism, you can do it without removing all the guts from the trans, while it is still in frame. I can't remeber if it's a Jim's tool or Geroge's Garage tool that will et you replace that sleeve and oil seal without removing the shifter mechanism if that is appropriate.

Sorry I couldn't be more help, bit others will fill in the blanks, and at least you have a couple things to look at before others respond...

 

I dealt with the same issues with my 2008. The loud bang / clunk you hear when you try to hot start it is the compensator. I lost a couple of starter pinions at first. The third time, the chain broke, sending it through the primary case. That destroyed the clutch hub also. Mine was under warranty at the time, and I traded the bike just before the warranty expired.