0903 Torque soothing download for 2007's.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Delphi is showing other manufacturers that which they designed for HD. Look closely at the bottom-right picture. Those are our parts.

 

Ok I am a novice when it comes to FI and read bits and pieces of the links above SERT or Screaming Eagle race tuner is a new tunable ECM??? The stage 1 flash is only a reconfig/remap. of your current ECM is this correct? Sorry if this is too basic of a question..

 

Based on what I've been able to piece together about the way the stock Delphi ECU functions I'd say it's either right or wrong.

So long as the characteristics of the peripherals aren't markedly different beyond flowing a little better across the board, "right" is probably okay. If the peripherals have characteristics that don't match the "curve" of the stock stuff, "wrong" would be the right answer.

The stock Delphi will evidently auto-tune while in closed loop mode to effectively shift the VE (volumetric efficiency) values it uses for determination of fuel and spark timing needs to become what they should be for the current conditions, even when switching to open-loop mode. Typical reasons for these changes might be an occasional tank of oxygenated fuel, differing altitudes, component wear, dirty air filter, etc. The VE shifting is done with a single multiplication factor (per cylinder) which is applied to its whole table, so if the new peripheral(s) act similarly everywhere as the stock gear, within a fair range, then the VE tables can be effectively shifted to a "proper" overall condition by the stock ECU using its narrow-band sensors.

As an example, if the new airbox and muffler combo provide 10% better flow everywhere the same, while running closed loop the necessary VE factor can established. This is then applied everywhere within the VE tables, so when you go open-loop at higher revs and larger throttle settings you'd be just fine.

If the peripherals handle the closed-loop range differently than they do the open-loop range (think "change the shape of the torque curve") you are playing with fire by not establishing "correct" modification to the base VE tables for full-throttle-type conditions, where the computer gets no feedback via the O2 sensors.

The SERT can be used to modify the base VE tables to reflect changes in the flow characteristics in different areas (changed torque curve shape, or a "simple" shifting up or down everywhere), so that the "adaptive fueling" can continue to perform properly. The dealer "downloads" do this as well, for the known peripherals the factory has tested, but for street-going engines this will be used to maintain the necessary EPA compliance.

The stock Delphi ECU, while relatively "simple," is actually quite elegant.

I would think that just (reasonable) slip-on mufflers are a safe bet, but changing the pipes would not be. Also, a freer-flowing airbox would probably not change much of the response in the lower throttle openings (where the auto-tuning is being performed) but would be a whole different animal at the larger ones, so it wouldn't be a safe bet either. Installing a freer-flowing filter element into the stock airbox should be safe.

 

This is HD Caution from the EFI stage 1 in their catalog: Part numbers....29260-08, 29773-02C, 29489-99C


CAUTION: Harley-DavidsonÂŽ EFI systems will not compensate for any component changes. Do not mill heads or increase compression in any way. Do not use cams other than supplied in the kit. Do not change kit components. Failure to comply may result in engine damage. Dealer installation required - failure to comply may result in a lean fuel condition and severe engine damage.

 

That stuff ventures pretty far afield from "peripherals," by which I refer to the things on the very ends of the chain. Those things are links within the chain.

Like I said, I would not "just install" without modifying the VE tables in some way (either directly or with a piggyback device) anything that would tend to modify the shape of the resultant torque/horsepower curves.

 

Agreed.. The stock unit is very limited on addressing anything other than minor tweaks in the engine. The O2 sensors are not wide band by any means. You must redo the tables and check the AF mixtures with a decent set of meters... (so I have told and personally witnessed)

 

I agree with your info. I would like the MoCo to define the right thing for the dealers so I get the same answer from each service department. Even the caution note does not address pipes. On stage 1 alone I get 2 answers: You add pipes to theHD stage 1(A/C and download) and the warranty is voided, period, no ifs ands or buts. OR Yeap, with the stage one (A/C and download) installed you can put any pipes on it and keep the warranty.

On my last couple bikes I got: As long as you do not break into the motor do what you want, warranty is good.

 

The sensors being narrow-band does not limit their functionality as much as is normally considered. It merely limits the range over which they can authoritatively report. I have it under good authority that the "adaptive fuel value" (the VE table correction factor) goes up to 30%. I've not yet got the answer whether it's ±30% or ±15% (for 30% total range) but even using the latter, 14.7×0.85=12.5 and 14.7×1.15=16.9, so if the result is anywhere between 12.5:1 to 16.9:1 AFR while in closed loop, for whatever reason, the Delphi can reel it back in using the narrow-band sensors. Still, the relationships between all the cells in the VE tables have to be correct for the system to work as intended, so just putting a velocity stack on the intake is out, as well just putting 16" open pipes on the exhaust; certainly the combination of just the two, too. Whatever changes are made, if they differ markedly from stock components, the VE tables have to be adjusted. If the new stuff is known and mapped by HD the "download" will do this, otherwise the SERT must be employed. Last choice, though it actually falls somewhere in the middle, is a piggyback fueler/timing device.