No More ECM Flash
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 310
Likes: 1
From: Tulsa, Ok
RE: No More ECM Flash
Well peddler, flawed as in, only partially able to do its job. They have 2 O2 sensors that can kind of do their job, and an ecm, as of 07 that can kind of manage fuel trim on its own, but relies heavily on pre-programmed mapping. There is systems that can rectify the lean running condition on the bikes, and allow adaptive learn like modern cars do. So yeah, its pretty much a flawed design!lol You have a SERT, you paid how much for it? if you bought it at the dealer, you paid in the range of high $400s for it, or if you went to CHi town harley etc, you got it for $364~. Your dealer talk to you about doing a dyno run on the bike? Add that up with the cost of the sert, which all on earth it is, is a security key to let you into the ecm software, and downloads to flash it, and your in the range of a Tmax or DTT. As for which is better, SERT or aftermarket ecm, or a piggyback system, well do the searching on that, youll form your own opinion.
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,984
Likes: 8
RE: No More ECM Flash
I have the stage one download. works fine but If i was going to do it over a sert is the way i would go.
some recalibrations for certian setups are only for 05 and back. The htcc manifold is an example not sure if they make adiffernt htcc manifold for an 06 and newer. They may of been confused on what you were asking for. now if they were confused i would make sure i was nto calling it the wrong thing. i would ask for a "stage 1 recalibration flash for the ecm."
if they are still confused or try the sert sale i would find a different dealer. I think a sert is a better deal but, they should advice you and not lie to you.
some recalibrations for certian setups are only for 05 and back. The htcc manifold is an example not sure if they make adiffernt htcc manifold for an 06 and newer. They may of been confused on what you were asking for. now if they were confused i would make sure i was nto calling it the wrong thing. i would ask for a "stage 1 recalibration flash for the ecm."
if they are still confused or try the sert sale i would find a different dealer. I think a sert is a better deal but, they should advice you and not lie to you.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From:
RE: No More ECM Flash
ORIGINAL: StreetglideOK
Well peddler, flawed as in, only partially able to do its job. They have 2 O2 sensors that can kind of do their job, and an ecm, as of 07 that can kind of manage fuel trim on its own, but relies heavily on pre-programmed mapping. There is systems that can rectify the lean running condition on the bikes, and allow adaptive learn like modern cars do. So yeah, its pretty much a flawed design!lol You have a SERT, you paid how much for it? if you bought it at the dealer, you paid in the range of high $400s for it, or if you went to CHi town harley etc, you got it for $364~. Your dealer talk to you about doing a dyno run on the bike? Add that up with the cost of the sert, which all on earth it is, is a security key to let you into the ecm software, and downloads to flash it, and your in the range of a Tmax or DTT. As for which is better, SERT or aftermarket ecm, or a piggyback system, well do the searching on that, youll form your own opinion.
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
Well peddler, flawed as in, only partially able to do its job. They have 2 O2 sensors that can kind of do their job, and an ecm, as of 07 that can kind of manage fuel trim on its own, but relies heavily on pre-programmed mapping. There is systems that can rectify the lean running condition on the bikes, and allow adaptive learn like modern cars do. So yeah, its pretty much a flawed design!lol You have a SERT, you paid how much for it? if you bought it at the dealer, you paid in the range of high $400s for it, or if you went to CHi town harley etc, you got it for $364~. Your dealer talk to you about doing a dyno run on the bike? Add that up with the cost of the sert, which all on earth it is, is a security key to let you into the ecm software, and downloads to flash it, and your in the range of a Tmax or DTT. As for which is better, SERT or aftermarket ecm, or a piggyback system, well do the searching on that, youll form your own opinion.
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
It is your opinion that the MoCo should have designed the ECM differently. Great, we welcome opinions here. But your statement that the stock ECM is "flawed as in, only partially able to do its job." is factually incorrect. The stock ECM is doing exactly the job it was designed to do.
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 254
Likes: 1
From: The Republic of Texas!
RE: No More ECM Flash
Look it up in the parts book. The "stage one" that HD will do is an air cleaner ONLY, they have NO download for air cleaner and pipes.
The dealer told you the truth.
If you add pipes then you need another download because it will run even leaner and the Dealer does not support it.
The dealer told you the truth.
If you add pipes then you need another download because it will run even leaner and the Dealer does not support it.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 310
Likes: 1
From: Tulsa, Ok
RE: No More ECM Flash
Ill say this much before it turns into a pissing contest. The ecm from harley does what they want it to do, does it do the job as well as it should? I dont think so, so as such I believe its flawed. Ford built Pintos in the 70s with the design of a fuel tank subject to catching fire during rear end collisions. Thats how they designed it, so therefore its not flawed then right? If one wants to use the sert, more power to them, but why pad Harleys pocket on it, knowing they could very well created the market for the need of a sert. Money spent for dynos and a sert, you can get something else that will bring the benefit of EFI to your bike via true adaptive learn technology.
[sm=deadhorse.gif]
[sm=deadhorse.gif]
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Greensburg Pa
RE: No More ECM Flash
ORIGINAL: Wags1
This is just simply incorrect. The stock ECM is not flawed and does exactly the job it was designed to do. Now you may certainly argue, and some here would agree with you, that the MoCo should have gone with a complete closed loop auto-tuning ECM system. But they did not. The stock ECM works exactly as it was designed and is certainly not flawed in that design. It was designed to work in both closed loop and open loop operation and to work with narrow band o2 sensors that control within a narrow band of AFR.
It is your opinion that the MoCo should have designed the ECM differently. Great, we welcome opinions here. But your statement that the stock ECM is "flawed as in, only partially able to do its job." is factually incorrect. The stock ECM is doing exactly the job it was designed to do.
ORIGINAL: StreetglideOK
Well peddler, flawed as in, only partially able to do its job. They have 2 O2 sensors that can kind of do their job, and an ecm, as of 07 that can kind of manage fuel trim on its own, but relies heavily on pre-programmed mapping. There is systems that can rectify the lean running condition on the bikes, and allow adaptive learn like modern cars do. So yeah, its pretty much a flawed design!lol You have a SERT, you paid how much for it? if you bought it at the dealer, you paid in the range of high $400s for it, or if you went to CHi town harley etc, you got it for $364~. Your dealer talk to you about doing a dyno run on the bike? Add that up with the cost of the sert, which all on earth it is, is a security key to let you into the ecm software, and downloads to flash it, and your in the range of a Tmax or DTT. As for which is better, SERT or aftermarket ecm, or a piggyback system, well do the searching on that, youll form your own opinion.
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
Well peddler, flawed as in, only partially able to do its job. They have 2 O2 sensors that can kind of do their job, and an ecm, as of 07 that can kind of manage fuel trim on its own, but relies heavily on pre-programmed mapping. There is systems that can rectify the lean running condition on the bikes, and allow adaptive learn like modern cars do. So yeah, its pretty much a flawed design!lol You have a SERT, you paid how much for it? if you bought it at the dealer, you paid in the range of high $400s for it, or if you went to CHi town harley etc, you got it for $364~. Your dealer talk to you about doing a dyno run on the bike? Add that up with the cost of the sert, which all on earth it is, is a security key to let you into the ecm software, and downloads to flash it, and your in the range of a Tmax or DTT. As for which is better, SERT or aftermarket ecm, or a piggyback system, well do the searching on that, youll form your own opinion.
ps.. just to make the lawyers and peddlers office happy.... the above stated comment is purely of my own opinion based on years experience in the auto repair field, and does not imply its the opinion of others on this board. Take it as you will. thank you!
It is your opinion that the MoCo should have designed the ECM differently. Great, we welcome opinions here. But your statement that the stock ECM is "flawed as in, only partially able to do its job." is factually incorrect. The stock ECM is doing exactly the job it was designed to do.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Greensburg Pa
RE: No More ECM Flash
ORIGINAL: StreetglideOK
Ill say this much before it turns into a pissing contest. The ecm from harley does what they want it to do, does it do the job as well as it should? I dont think so, so as such I believe its flawed. Ford built Pintos in the 70s with the design of a fuel tank subject to catching fire during rear end collisions. Thats how they designed it, so therefore its not flawed then right? If one wants to use the sert, more power to them, but why pad Harleys pocket on it, knowing they could very well created the market for the need of a sert. Money spent for dynos and a sert, you can get something else that will bring the benefit of EFI to your bike via true adaptive learn technology.
[sm=deadhorse.gif]
Ill say this much before it turns into a pissing contest. The ecm from harley does what they want it to do, does it do the job as well as it should? I dont think so, so as such I believe its flawed. Ford built Pintos in the 70s with the design of a fuel tank subject to catching fire during rear end collisions. Thats how they designed it, so therefore its not flawed then right? If one wants to use the sert, more power to them, but why pad Harleys pocket on it, knowing they could very well created the market for the need of a sert. Money spent for dynos and a sert, you can get something else that will bring the benefit of EFI to your bike via true adaptive learn technology.
[sm=deadhorse.gif]
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,515
Likes: 6
From:
RE: No More ECM Flash
ORIGINAL: daconiam
Look it up in the parts book. The "stage one" that HD will do is an air cleaner ONLY, they have NO download for air cleaner and pipes.
The dealer told you the truth.
If you add pipes then you need another download because it will run even leaner and the Dealer does not support it.
Look it up in the parts book. The "stage one" that HD will do is an air cleaner ONLY, they have NO download for air cleaner and pipes.
The dealer told you the truth.
If you add pipes then you need another download because it will run even leaner and the Dealer does not support it.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: No More ECM Flash
ORIGINAL: StreetglideOK
The ecm from harley does what they want it to do, does it do the job as well as it should? I dont think so, so as such I believe its flawed.
The ecm from harley does what they want it to do, does it do the job as well as it should? I dont think so, so as such I believe its flawed.
The ECU has sufficient auto-tuning and does a remarkable job. If you don't like it, replace it.
Thread Starter
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Novice
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Manassas, VA
RE: No More ECM Flash
You guys have been great...I really do appreciate it. I think I'll head out to Winchester VA or Orange VA for starters. You know what discouraged me the most? It was the stupified look that was given to me by service and parts dealers at two dealers. I even phrased what I wanted in multiple ways - stage one ecm flash, recalibration, etc. You would have thought I was speaking French to them.
All right, no more complaints from me. I let you know what happens.
Blueroad
All right, no more complaints from me. I let you know what happens.
Blueroad