ECM question
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Longview, Washington
ECM question
Went for a test drive today on my newly finished stage 1 update. BS air cleaner, Torres true duals, PCII, and V&H ovals. Bikes runs great. Stopped by a dealer in my area to get a part and got into a conversation with the parts guy. He told me that I didn't need the PCIII and all I needed was a stage 1 flash of the ECM. He told me that several people have been in with PCIIIs that were running poorly. They removed them and had their ECMs flashed and their bikes ran great.
To do this, I could put the O2 sensors back in, remove the PCIII, and have the flash for around $150.
Is there anyone here who has done exhaust, etc. and had their ECM flashed? How did it work for you?
Thanks for any input that will help.
Steve
To do this, I could put the O2 sensors back in, remove the PCIII, and have the flash for around $150.
Is there anyone here who has done exhaust, etc. and had their ECM flashed? How did it work for you?
Thanks for any input that will help.
Steve
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 714
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From:
RE: ECM question
The ECM flash is a canned calibration the dealer make 100% profit on.
Buy a SERT or other tuner box. Ditch the PCIII(IMO)
With a few bucks more you can control all the ECM functions and run the O2`s like you should.
By removing the O2 sensors you relying on the Box to control AFR. If that PCIII fails you motor could be toast.
You get what you pay for. IMO a PCIII is junk.
I run a DTT/WEGO IID on my 07 FLHX and the SERT on my 08 FLHTCU. No need to rely on anyone to tune my bikes. The dealers are useless IMO.
Buy something you can tune and control yourself. It`s not hard to do and learn. Be self reliant and save yourself some big money in the long run. Spend it right the first time and save from there.
Buy a SERT or other tuner box. Ditch the PCIII(IMO)
With a few bucks more you can control all the ECM functions and run the O2`s like you should.
By removing the O2 sensors you relying on the Box to control AFR. If that PCIII fails you motor could be toast.
You get what you pay for. IMO a PCIII is junk.
I run a DTT/WEGO IID on my 07 FLHX and the SERT on my 08 FLHTCU. No need to rely on anyone to tune my bikes. The dealers are useless IMO.
Buy something you can tune and control yourself. It`s not hard to do and learn. Be self reliant and save yourself some big money in the long run. Spend it right the first time and save from there.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 457
Likes: 6
From: Woodstock, Ga
RE: ECM question
good post here my bike goes in friday for the dealer download all im doing and im in calif by the way is the stage1 wont this useless download be enough??? i've seen and heard dont wast your money on this get the sert or whatever.
The stealer says it will be good enough so i can get the AC. anything is better then stock.
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
The stealer says it will be good enough so i can get the AC. anything is better then stock.
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 714
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From:
RE: ECM question
ORIGINAL: pounder35
good post here my bike goes in friday for the dealer download all im doing and im in calif by the way is the stage1 wont this useless download be enough??? i've seen and heard dont wast your money on this get the sert or whatever.
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
good post here my bike goes in friday for the dealer download all im doing and im in calif by the way is the stage1 wont this useless download be enough??? i've seen and heard dont wast your money on this get the sert or whatever.
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
You can read and clear codes, record a 1/2 hour of real-time data(this is a diagnostic tool), change AFR, injector size, engine displacement, timing charts and anything else you can think of related to tuning. It has 3 tuning modes. 2 are used without a DYNO. It`s a DIY setup.
I like to do it myself. F the stealer's. They are programmed for one thing and one thing only. TO GET YOUR MONEY....[:'(]
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: ECM question
Well, yes, the dealers are mostly in it for the money. What would be the point otherwise unless they were independently wealthy or something?
The dealer's "download" is basically a change of the VE (volumetric efficiency) tables to reflect the stock engine wearing specific intake and exhaust components. It will maintain both EPA compliance in the cruise ranges and correct operation in the other ranges.
Of the two (mufflers, intake airbox assembly) the intake is the one that really needs the VE tables modified. In that sense, your dealer was correct that it will be "good enough". The ECU will most usually accommodate muffler changes so those being the specific part for the particular download aren't so critical. It would be best, though to use what the factory used in developing the download.
The SERT is the best option of those mentioned, but being in CA I doubt it actually is an option in the first place. At least not at your dealer's place of business.
This stuff ain't kindergarten-level knowledge, so don't feel bad if you don't grasp it, but it ain't to the level of rocket science, either, so you likely can if you put your mind to it.
The major downside to the PC is that it throws away some of the neater functions of the stock ECU, which is a step backward. I use the PC at the moment and it's sure better than nothing. In fact I believe its the best thing short of SERT or one of the replacement ECUs. It decidedly ain't no junk no matter what. And in light of your exhaust plumbing changes, it's decidedly better than the dealer download. They certainly don't have a download for the exhaust system and you could well get into trouble in the long-run if you go that route (the download instead of the PC).
The dealer's "download" is basically a change of the VE (volumetric efficiency) tables to reflect the stock engine wearing specific intake and exhaust components. It will maintain both EPA compliance in the cruise ranges and correct operation in the other ranges.
Of the two (mufflers, intake airbox assembly) the intake is the one that really needs the VE tables modified. In that sense, your dealer was correct that it will be "good enough". The ECU will most usually accommodate muffler changes so those being the specific part for the particular download aren't so critical. It would be best, though to use what the factory used in developing the download.
The SERT is the best option of those mentioned, but being in CA I doubt it actually is an option in the first place. At least not at your dealer's place of business.
This stuff ain't kindergarten-level knowledge, so don't feel bad if you don't grasp it, but it ain't to the level of rocket science, either, so you likely can if you put your mind to it.
The major downside to the PC is that it throws away some of the neater functions of the stock ECU, which is a step backward. I use the PC at the moment and it's sure better than nothing. In fact I believe its the best thing short of SERT or one of the replacement ECUs. It decidedly ain't no junk no matter what. And in light of your exhaust plumbing changes, it's decidedly better than the dealer download. They certainly don't have a download for the exhaust system and you could well get into trouble in the long-run if you go that route (the download instead of the PC).
Thread Starter
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,698
Likes: 10
From: Longview, Washington
RE: ECM question
ORIGINAL: pounder35.
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
Hey Steve how do you like your ovals i was thinking about adding those as well
[IMG]local://upfiles/14366/A949A1BE836542588FC5BC08637E3FD0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/14366/AF14BAEDCCAD4BB0A406B1C1CE82B7BA.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/14366/3CF91C88D80247DFB4F0BBEEEF9C111B.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,698
Likes: 10
From: Longview, Washington
RE: ECM question
ORIGINAL: glens
Well, yes, the dealers are mostly in it for the money. What would be the point otherwise unless they were independently wealthy or something?
The dealer's "download" is basically a change of the VE (volumetric efficiency) tables to reflect the stock engine wearing specific intake and exhaust components. It will maintain both EPA compliance in the cruise ranges and correct operation in the other ranges.
Of the two (mufflers, intake airbox assembly) the intake is the one that really needs the VE tables modified. In that sense, your dealer was correct that it will be "good enough". The ECU will most usually accommodate muffler changes so those being the specific part for the particular download aren't so critical. It would be best, though to use what the factory used in developing the download.
The SERT is the best option of those mentioned, but being in CA I doubt it actually is an option in the first place. At least not at your dealer's place of business.
This stuff ain't kindergarten-level knowledge, so don't feel bad if you don't grasp it, but it ain't to the level of rocket science, either, so you likely can if you put your mind to it.
The major downside to the PC is that it throws away some of the neater functions of the stock ECU, which is a step backward. I use the PC at the moment and it's sure better than nothing. In fact I believe its the best thing short of SERT or one of the replacement ECUs. It decidedly ain't no junk no matter what. And in light of your exhaust plumbing changes, it's decidedly better than the dealer download. They certainly don't have a download for the exhaust system and you could well get into trouble in the long-run if you go that route (the download instead of the PC).
Well, yes, the dealers are mostly in it for the money. What would be the point otherwise unless they were independently wealthy or something?
The dealer's "download" is basically a change of the VE (volumetric efficiency) tables to reflect the stock engine wearing specific intake and exhaust components. It will maintain both EPA compliance in the cruise ranges and correct operation in the other ranges.
Of the two (mufflers, intake airbox assembly) the intake is the one that really needs the VE tables modified. In that sense, your dealer was correct that it will be "good enough". The ECU will most usually accommodate muffler changes so those being the specific part for the particular download aren't so critical. It would be best, though to use what the factory used in developing the download.
The SERT is the best option of those mentioned, but being in CA I doubt it actually is an option in the first place. At least not at your dealer's place of business.
This stuff ain't kindergarten-level knowledge, so don't feel bad if you don't grasp it, but it ain't to the level of rocket science, either, so you likely can if you put your mind to it.
The major downside to the PC is that it throws away some of the neater functions of the stock ECU, which is a step backward. I use the PC at the moment and it's sure better than nothing. In fact I believe its the best thing short of SERT or one of the replacement ECUs. It decidedly ain't no junk no matter what. And in light of your exhaust plumbing changes, it's decidedly better than the dealer download. They certainly don't have a download for the exhaust system and you could well get into trouble in the long-run if you go that route (the download instead of the PC).
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