Supertrapp SE's
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 127
Likes: 26
From:
RE: Supertrapp SE's
ORIGINAL: glens
No doubt some of that's correct, but from http://www.supertrapp.com/product_se...t.asp?CatID=43 we read:
"The SE Series will fill a huge demand created in the market today by adding less than 3dB(SAE J1287) to the stock sound level while still providing a deep rich tone"
3dB difference is almost not noticeable to the average person.
Here's a few sound levels I just cut and pasted from a chart:
10 dB ABSOLUTE SILENCE, ATT-BELL LABORATORY "QUIET ROOM"
13 dB ORDINARY LIGHT BULB HUM
15 dB A PIN DROP FROM A HIEGHT OF 1 CENTIMETER AT A DISTANCE OF 1 METER
I've heard the discontinued-in-'06 mufflers and they're very comparable in sound level to my Rushes w/2" baffles. They were on an 88" TC, mine are on a 96" TC.
ORIGINAL: electaRICK
By the way, THESE are the same EXACT Screamin Eagle SE's that were discontinued in 06 the "off road only version" supertrapp made them for HD,,, thus why they are still called st SE's
By the way, THESE are the same EXACT Screamin Eagle SE's that were discontinued in 06 the "off road only version" supertrapp made them for HD,,, thus why they are still called st SE's
"The SE Series will fill a huge demand created in the market today by adding less than 3dB(SAE J1287) to the stock sound level while still providing a deep rich tone"
3dB difference is almost not noticeable to the average person.
Here's a few sound levels I just cut and pasted from a chart:
10 dB ABSOLUTE SILENCE, ATT-BELL LABORATORY "QUIET ROOM"
13 dB ORDINARY LIGHT BULB HUM
15 dB A PIN DROP FROM A HIEGHT OF 1 CENTIMETER AT A DISTANCE OF 1 METER
I've heard the discontinued-in-'06 mufflers and they're very comparable in sound level to my Rushes w/2" baffles. They were on an 88" TC, mine are on a 96" TC.
I don't purport to be an accoustical expert but this is my understanding of the logarithmicdeciBel scale. If I have misunderstood it I am sure somebody will correct me. I only point this out to prevent someone out there from believing that there is no significant difference between the volume of the Supertrapp SE and the OEM mufflers. If the OEM muffler is rated at 85dB and the Supertrapp is rated at 88dB that difference will be very obvious to the casual listener.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: Supertrapp SE's
Electrical (and sound) power is 10×log<sub10>(level_ratio). Sound pressure level is 20×log<sub10>(level_ratio).
A 3 dB difference in electric signal or sound power level is equivalent to a 6 dB(A) difference in sound pressure (the result in air of the sound power) level.
The following excerpt is from http://www.sonoma-county.org/prmd/do....8Appendix.pdf and there's other neat stuff therein:
"In considering increases in A-weighted noise level, knowledge of the following relationships is helpful in understanding this report:[*]Except in carefully controlled laboratory experiments, a one-decibel (1 dB) change cannot be perceived[*]Outside a laboratory, a three-decibel (3 dB) change is considered a just-perceivable difference[*]A change of at least five decibels (5 dB) is required before any noticeable community response would be expected[*]A ten-decibel (10 dB) change is heard subjectively as approximately a doubling in loudness and would almost certainly cause an adverse community response"
In my previous post I referenced a few very quiet sound levels. The relational differences between the levels are the same even when things are much louder since it's a logarithmic scale. So from 10 to 13 decibels difference is the same as 100 to 103 decibels (though it would seem the upper figures would become 100 and 130 to maintain the same ratio). I forgot to mention that earlier.
[edit: fixed the equation representations...]
A 3 dB difference in electric signal or sound power level is equivalent to a 6 dB(A) difference in sound pressure (the result in air of the sound power) level.
The following excerpt is from http://www.sonoma-county.org/prmd/do....8Appendix.pdf and there's other neat stuff therein:
"In considering increases in A-weighted noise level, knowledge of the following relationships is helpful in understanding this report:[*]Except in carefully controlled laboratory experiments, a one-decibel (1 dB) change cannot be perceived[*]Outside a laboratory, a three-decibel (3 dB) change is considered a just-perceivable difference[*]A change of at least five decibels (5 dB) is required before any noticeable community response would be expected[*]A ten-decibel (10 dB) change is heard subjectively as approximately a doubling in loudness and would almost certainly cause an adverse community response"
In my previous post I referenced a few very quiet sound levels. The relational differences between the levels are the same even when things are much louder since it's a logarithmic scale. So from 10 to 13 decibels difference is the same as 100 to 103 decibels (though it would seem the upper figures would become 100 and 130 to maintain the same ratio). I forgot to mention that earlier.
[edit: fixed the equation representations...]
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: Supertrapp SE's
Well, I got away editing that once (to add quotes around the quote) but doing that messed up the × character (the server is sending something non-standard outside of Microsoft systems, evidently).
I forgot to mention that, and I just looked to confirm it on my stock mufflers standing in the corner, stock SPL is 80dB(A). So the ST-SEs will be 83dB(A). (Did it mention that in their page?).
Anyway, the relationships between the various frequencies in the sound output will certainly be different and that's primarily what will be noticed as a difference in their sonic qualities.
One relatively unrelated thing I remember learning as true years ago is that when auditioning loudspeakers, it's imperative to get the SPLs the same when switching between them. Invariably the one that's even unnoticeably louder will be picked as the one with the better sound character/quality even if that's not necessarily the case. Many a pair of speakers have been bought that weren't as satisfying to listen to in the long run simply because of the difference in sound level when making the decision. I'm sure that would pertain to motorcycle mufflers as well.
I forgot to mention that, and I just looked to confirm it on my stock mufflers standing in the corner, stock SPL is 80dB(A). So the ST-SEs will be 83dB(A). (Did it mention that in their page?).
Anyway, the relationships between the various frequencies in the sound output will certainly be different and that's primarily what will be noticed as a difference in their sonic qualities.
One relatively unrelated thing I remember learning as true years ago is that when auditioning loudspeakers, it's imperative to get the SPLs the same when switching between them. Invariably the one that's even unnoticeably louder will be picked as the one with the better sound character/quality even if that's not necessarily the case. Many a pair of speakers have been bought that weren't as satisfying to listen to in the long run simply because of the difference in sound level when making the decision. I'm sure that would pertain to motorcycle mufflers as well.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 624
Likes: 9
From: Orangevale, Calif.
RE: Supertrapp SE's
Wow!!! Lots of info.
Thanks all,
I am kinda on the fence between SE's and V&H ovals, and I'm afraid the O's will be to loud, so maybethe SE'swill be just right....
Thanks all,
I am kinda on the fence between SE's and V&H ovals, and I'm afraid the O's will be to loud, so maybethe SE'swill be just right....
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 11
From: Lorton, VA
RE: Supertrapp SE's
You can make them louder by changing the baffles, or removing the fiberglass blankets. However, they sound loud enough to be cool, but not so loud to drive you crazy on an eight hour day and get you a ticket from the LEOs.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 337
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
RE: Supertrapp SE's
I contacted Supertrapp to see whatif any difference there is betweenmy 06 Screamn' Eagle (2 piece / off road) Touring Performancemufflers(formerly made for Harley by Supertrapp) andtheSupertrapp SE Touring mufflers; the service representative said only thelogo. The Screamn' Eagles sound sweet at idle and in town, but will bark when you twist the throttle at 60 to 65 mph;3 decibels above stock may have been measured at idle, because I think they're a lot louder out on theopenroad. The Vance & Hines basic slash cuts & ovals sound deeper than the SE's, but may be louder, especially with a set of true dual header pipes in front of them. You may want to check out and compare the 07 Screamn' Eagle Street Performance mufflers if your looking for a pipe somewhere between stock and loud (I hear the slash cuts are louder and get louderwith more milesthan the 2 piece). You can kind of get an idea of how a pipe is going to soundon a dealership parking lot, but the only way know for sure is on the open road; also repeating what many a rider has said "what is quiet to one is loud to another".
You came to the right place to research your options,good luck on your decision.
You came to the right place to research your options,good luck on your decision.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Supertrapp SE's
I put the V&H Ovals on my '03 and after several thousand miles i hated them, too loud and tinny sounding for my taste. The SE's are much quieter and have a deeper tone.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 680
Likes: 1
From: Seattle area
RE: Supertrapp SE's
I had the V&H Ovals on my RK Custom. They looked and sounded great, but were a little loud on the super-slab. I put the Supertrapp SEs on my EGC -- they have a nice, deep rumble, yet will still bark when you get on it. To me, they're perfect for my type of cruising. For reference, using an "A" weighted sound meter at a measured distance behind the bike, when I put the Ovals on my RK, the sound level increase was +10dB. I did the same when I changed to the Supertrapps on my EG -- the sound increase was +3 dB. YMMV.
ORIGINAL: Mikind7
Wow!!! Lots of info.
Thanks all,
I am kinda on the fence between SE's and V&H ovals, and I'm afraid the O's will be to loud , so maybe the SE's will be just right....
Wow!!! Lots of info.
Thanks all,
I am kinda on the fence between SE's and V&H ovals, and I'm afraid the O's will be to loud , so maybe the SE's will be just right....
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 52
From: South Jersey
RE: Supertrapp SE's
I have the discontinued SE mufflers on my '06 SG. They sound good but here's my question.
After I had them installed I noticed an increased amout of vibration especially at idle.
Is this normal? I'm actually considering going back to stock but then I'll have to contend with heat issues again. Seems like you can never get that perfect combination.
After I had them installed I noticed an increased amout of vibration especially at idle.
Is this normal? I'm actually considering going back to stock but then I'll have to contend with heat issues again. Seems like you can never get that perfect combination.