i am new to this forum,i just dropped my 08 ultra off at the dealer to have them install a 103 kit,i am also having a sert,and an oil cooler,and bub true duals with 2 1/4' baffels my question is i am not sure what cams to have installed the dealer suggested 204's i do not want extreme heat or it to be a nightmare to idle and to keep running,but some say i should be using a little more cam ,this is a stock compression 103 kit being installed,help.

 

I am still trying to figure out why so manypeople are automaticallyattracted tobuying .30 over topends and replacingit atiny bit biggerbrand new one? Not much bang for the buck in that swap.... Your 96 would have woke up major with a SE 211, Pipes and a Race Tuner. Port work on the heads even better. What are your performance goals?

 

I spoke with the service manager at my local dealer and he showed me the numbers on several dyno runs created using several different cams and the 204's had the best numbers. They have a great bottom end and thats is what I'm looking for. They do fall off at high speed but I'm not worried about high speed. I just want to leave em at the light.

 

the 103 performs quite a bit better pure stock then a lightly modified 96,as did the 96 over the 88 to 95' mod,i thank you for the input,but after some 40 different harleys,i now want a fairly smooth low maintenance 103 with some decent power and torque,the 211 as i am told do not work well with stock compression,i was thinking between the 204,s and 255,s,i would like to hear thoughts


[/align]

 

Well I think your technicallyrighton the "slightlymore performance" But in every caseit always ends up in combination of parts.....Butforthe amount of moneyspent for .30 thousandsover holes/slugs versusperformance gainrealized/cabbage spent. Your not buying much morepistonsurface area....See my point? The 96 already has a long throw crank.....And thats a major departure compared to the 88 engines......

There are tonsof sub (100/100) 103s out there because dealers want the labor rate and people bite on bigger inchis the performance solution withskinny cams, and do little else.

Here is my bike96with SE 211s, completely factory stock top, Bassani Headers, Reinhard Muffs, SERT, adjustable PRs..... Its just shy of 100lbs of Torque...pulls like a freight train from 2800-5800 RPM. When I got the bike back it felt liketo theseatlikea 50% increase inpower compared to bone stock,even though its nothing close to that kind of percentage gain.

My dealer buddyadmitted alot of 103s do not evenhit my dynonumbers because the buyernever puts the combination together right. And cams and tuningare going to be a large part of what you get out of this 103 and what if anything you do with the heads.

Who ever is telling you 211s do not work well in a stock 96 needs to put the crack pipe down. They are in the business of boring jugs and selling pistons and gaskets....Are you shooting formore performance then I dynoed? If not, then I made my point. If so, then you will need some head workthe 211s or slightly largeron that 103 IMHO.


I will make you agood guess the 204s in your 103 does not make my peaknumbers and runs out of breath early. Do not get me wrong here.......... I only pointing out you could have had some ball ripping straight upcurveperformance without spending the money on an overbore and new pistons.... I would have saved that, forwhen you wore out the top end you alreadypaid good money for. 211s as a FACTrocks in a 96!

Whats my reccomendation? Leave it 96, Port your heads, go SE 211s, Race Tuner, adjustable PRs, your favorite pipes and I guarantee it will put a smile on your face! I am thinking you will see over 90HP and easilyhit just over 100 Torque if you port heads.

Shoot a personal email to(Greg09997)https://www.hdforums.com/showprofile.asp?memID=33245 Greg has a Stock 2007SG, I let himride mine last weekend back to back..... I am quite certain he will gladly confirm the difference I am talking about, he nowplans to replicate exactlywhat I have done with mine. Best of all you can have it for less money and keep your brand newtop end. My Wireless throttle is now snappier then a Chua Chua!


I am hoping tohelp educate the money wasted on these 103s overbores!Itsbest left for a top end freshen.The 96will perform handsomely with some reallymildtweaks!






[IMG]local://upfiles/40135/6E713DD182684AF6BF1ED244080F8108.jpg[/IMG]

 

Latus Harley Davidson has a good library of dyno charts to guide you, and a nice explanation of them here:

http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com/dyno_charts.asp

 

Just to clarify something that is moderately misleading ~ at least it was to me...

Stock bore (for 88" & 96" motors) is 3.75". "Big bore" (for 88" & 96" motors) is 3.875". The size difference comes from the stroke. The 88" has a 4" stroke & the 96" has a 4.375" stroke.

The difference in bore from stock to big bore is actaully .125" (not .30 or 30 thousandths).

While is is true that more performance gain is possible from cams only vs bore only (both require tune), when "done right", the best results come from adding both cams & big bore (then there's heads, compression, etc). ALWAYS think "package", components need to work well TOGETHER, and not all of them do.

If I'm just talking to myself.... sorry to have wasted your reading time...

 

PhilM,
Hey, I enjoy learning new things that is why I'mhere.You and others have been a great source of knowledge for me since I've joined, so keep talking we are listening. thanks

 

Thanks for the correction on the bore of the 103. But I will still stand by making my point. A 103 unto itself will provide little for buck spent with no head work and small cams. The stock heads left intactwill weazesoonerwith the larger bore.The increasedamount of airyoucanpump with the slightlylarger bore now approaches a limitationthrough stock heads. The smaller cam will then also limit the gains you would try to take from the increased bore in filling the slightly largercylinders. So you never really leverage the 103s potential in this scenario.

And the point is combination, and the performance goals a person has.A 96 will perform handsomely with some minor mods and make many people happier then they ever dreamed possible and their wallets will be fatter.

I am really trying to help and not rain on someones parade decisionhere, but trying tosave them money and dissapointment.The impression I have was this was a 103 swap with Headersa Cert and a SE204.I am pointing out the goals in mind could easily be done with the 96. Good nice rumble idle, reliable, Tire shredding bottom end great top end with what I consider to be someminor mods. And easilyhit the goals identified by RDMHOUSTON with taking advantage of what he already has in the 96.

Lets us know how it turns out. I suspect it will satisfy you. But going the other route too would have been really satisfying and you would have had a bit more money in your pocket.

And thats my story.

 

Donnylee and Phil are both right. All you have to do is look at the HD dyno sheets on the website to see the meager gains in hp and torque from the 95" kits (cylinders and pistons only) for 88", and 103" kits (cylinders and pistons only) for the 96".

What Donnylee did for his 96", I did with my 88" by adding HQ-0034 cams and left the motor otherwise stock, but with a good SERT tune. Far better performance than had I purchased an SE 95" kit.

Seven cubic inches is not going to make a meaningful (for me, anyway)performance difference if compression, head flow, and camming remain the same or are only marginally changed.