Baker Plus 1 oil pan? Anyone??
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,046
Likes: 1
From: Canada
A few of the gearheads I ride with have the +1 pan and claim it makes a difference. Baker had a direct sale recently where they offered the pan a lot cheaper than 400.00 so maybe give them a call to enquire. My 124 runs hot (235-250) at the best of times even with a cooler.
I'm building a 131 motor for my 2009 bike and will add one so I can run about 4 quarts versus the current 3 quarts. Big inch motors need the added pan cause they usually run lower oil levels.
I'm building a 131 motor for my 2009 bike and will add one so I can run about 4 quarts versus the current 3 quarts. Big inch motors need the added pan cause they usually run lower oil levels.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
But the same thing occurs with the "big chrome tube". The cooler oil tends to stick to the inner surface of the tube while hot oil rolls past it without coming in contact to the cooling apparatus. Warmer oil is insulated and isolated from the surface that is dissipating the heat by the cooler oil.
The inside of the crash bar is not chrome, and the length of it is so long that I don't think the insulated problem would be much a factor. The one person I read (over a year ago) who did this said it made something like a 20 to 30 degree difference. So I'm sure it works.
My question is does all that oil drain when you change it?. Where does it gather?
Beary
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
I have cut an past this from Bakers web site:
"- Designed with 3D solid modeling to increase pan capacity by 1 quart.
- Reduces engine oil temperature by 10ş on a 80ş day.
The feed and return on a stock pan are located within a 2 inches of each other in the front of the pan. BAKER+1 pan has the feed located in the rear and the return in the front for more compete system circulation.
- Multiple integral aluminum baffles eliminate the stock plastic baffle."
In looking at the photos on the site, I'm inclinded to beleive their claim! It sure looks like it will function far better over the H-D's and its flimsy plastic baffle.
http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/flt/index.htm#p1p
"- Designed with 3D solid modeling to increase pan capacity by 1 quart.
- Reduces engine oil temperature by 10ş on a 80ş day.
The feed and return on a stock pan are located within a 2 inches of each other in the front of the pan. BAKER+1 pan has the feed located in the rear and the return in the front for more compete system circulation.
- Multiple integral aluminum baffles eliminate the stock plastic baffle."
In looking at the photos on the site, I'm inclinded to beleive their claim! It sure looks like it will function far better over the H-D's and its flimsy plastic baffle.
http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/flt/index.htm#p1p
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 2
From: Cocoa Beach, Florida
I buy into edying of moving fluid that's next to the contacting surface of whatever it's being pumped through. However, the fluid temperature is probably not the cause - just a byproduct of that oil being in contact with the cooler stationary surface of the tube and the fact that it also happens to be moving a little slower. In addition, that cooler outer layer of slower moving oil next to the tube is surely also in contact with the hotter oil that's running more quickly through the central portion of the tube.
There is bound to be at least some reduction to overall temperature because heat is universally transfered from a hotter medium into a cooler medium regardless of what that medium may be made of. Some materals certainly are better at transfering heat than others but heat does still get transfered anyway.
There is bound to be at least some reduction to overall temperature because heat is universally transfered from a hotter medium into a cooler medium regardless of what that medium may be made of. Some materals certainly are better at transfering heat than others but heat does still get transfered anyway.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=beary;3979355]Ah, you like talking about this kind of stuff too.
The inside of the crash bar is not chrome, and the length of it is so long that I don't think the insulated problem would be much a factor. The one person I read (over a year ago) who did this said it made something like a 20 to 30 degree difference. So I'm sure it works.
My question is does all that oil drain when you change it?. Where does it gather?
Beary[/Q
I hadn't really considered the inside being chrome or not. Chrome inside would further diminish the bar's ability to cool the oil because of the dissimilar surfaces (Chrome over steel). Now I am sure they don't intend to chrome the inside of the bar but do you think any plating might have got in there while that bar was submerged during the plating process? I wonder if a little welding slag or mill scale could be found in the bars also that is ready to vibrate off at the next or last pot hole.
Now that we have that "one person's" (on the internet lol) opinion from over a year ago, and we have your personal opinion on the bar being long enough that isolation and insulation is no longer a factor, we can just forget about the fundamental principles of heat exchange and thermal dynamics okay?
As for where does the oil go at service, I am not sure how you drain oil from a crash bar as it was never designed, engineered or intended to be part of the lubrication system. I think in this case I'd direct your attention to that "one person" who is/was using this system.
My questions are, what criteria do you use to take one person's opinion off the internet ("So I'm sure it works") over another persons and why if you're plugged into the internet can't you do your own research on this and make a decision based on logical input rather than fairy tales?
-Maynard
The inside of the crash bar is not chrome, and the length of it is so long that I don't think the insulated problem would be much a factor. The one person I read (over a year ago) who did this said it made something like a 20 to 30 degree difference. So I'm sure it works.
My question is does all that oil drain when you change it?. Where does it gather?
Beary[/Q
I hadn't really considered the inside being chrome or not. Chrome inside would further diminish the bar's ability to cool the oil because of the dissimilar surfaces (Chrome over steel). Now I am sure they don't intend to chrome the inside of the bar but do you think any plating might have got in there while that bar was submerged during the plating process? I wonder if a little welding slag or mill scale could be found in the bars also that is ready to vibrate off at the next or last pot hole.
Now that we have that "one person's" (on the internet lol) opinion from over a year ago, and we have your personal opinion on the bar being long enough that isolation and insulation is no longer a factor, we can just forget about the fundamental principles of heat exchange and thermal dynamics okay?
As for where does the oil go at service, I am not sure how you drain oil from a crash bar as it was never designed, engineered or intended to be part of the lubrication system. I think in this case I'd direct your attention to that "one person" who is/was using this system.
My questions are, what criteria do you use to take one person's opinion off the internet ("So I'm sure it works") over another persons and why if you're plugged into the internet can't you do your own research on this and make a decision based on logical input rather than fairy tales?
-Maynard
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
I buy into edying of moving fluid that's next to the contacting surface of whatever it's being pumped through. However, the fluid temperature is probably not the cause - just a byproduct of that oil being in contact with the cooler stationary surface of the tube and the fact that it also happens to be moving a little slower. In addition, that cooler outer layer of slower moving oil next to the tube is surely also in contact with the hotter oil that's running more quickly through the central portion of the tube.
There is bound to be at least some reduction to overall temperature because heat is universally transfered from a hotter medium into a cooler medium regardless of what that medium may be made of. Some materals certainly are better at transfering heat than others but heat does still get transfered anyway.
There is bound to be at least some reduction to overall temperature because heat is universally transfered from a hotter medium into a cooler medium regardless of what that medium may be made of. Some materals certainly are better at transfering heat than others but heat does still get transfered anyway.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 2
From: Cocoa Beach, Florida
The OP's comment regarding increasing capacity is valid for another reason though. By increasing overall capacty, a lower percentage of the overall quantity of available oil is getting heated up at any given moment (while it's near the combustion chamber). Therefore there would seem to be a clear reduction to overall temperature just because more oil is now located in cooler areas of the engine. How much cooler overall? I don't think 20 degrees would be common but some decrease is logical - at least a little cooler.
Last edited by RangeRat; Oct 11, 2008 at 02:31 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
My questions are, what criteria do you use to take one person's opinion off the internet ("So I'm sure it works") over another persons and why if you're plugged into the internet can't you do your own research on this and make a decision based on logical input rather than fairy tales?
-Maynard
-Maynard
As for your answer, I have done my own research. I'm a little unsure why you would discount someone with experience, but if that is the case, why do you even hang around the forums as that is just about all we do here. And, there are lots of other folks who use their frames for cooling with great performance. Triumph did it in the 60s. The reason the "one persons" experience is so significant is just like all the other discussions that happen here on THIS forum, he gives a before and after result. But, don't take my word for it, or anyone elses for that matter because we are just internet guys.
If little things like this get you upset, maybe laying off the forum for awhile would be good for your health. Of course, that is just one internet opinion.
As for the cooling effect of surfaces others are talking about, even the conductivity of the sticking cool oil will cool the oil that passes by. In fact, airplanes using dry sumps in the old days counted on this Physics to heat their oil quickly after start, then to cool it once at working temp. The problem with old radial engines is they require large tanks of oil because they loose it so quickly. So heating up after start was a problem as well as cooling it down once it got to hot.
In this case, the engine guard is almost big enough that it could almost be considered more of a dry sump oil bag than a long tube.
Beary
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 7
From: St. Charles, IL
The notion of cold oil sticking to a surface and not allowing hot oil to cool is odd to say the least. If this were the case, the oil would never cool down and while the engine was running it would continue to get hotter exponentially until the engine will cook off the oil and would melt down. A cooler is essentially a radiator that is a long tube with lots of surface area to transfer heat. The engine guard will accomplish the same thing, even more so as there is far more surface area to exchange heat with the metal. No, they are not chromed inside, the ends are welded shut.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
Temp drop with crashbar
I did the crashbar conversion to a 2000 FLHTCI that I had. You could feel how hot the bar was after riding so I am confident there was some heat rejection. Never ran a temp gauge with it so not sure how much. I know of a few others who have done this and were happy with the results. The additional quart of oil has to help, added to some heat rejection from the bar. Of course a turbulator design in the tube would make it better. But in working with what we have it is not an easy option. Like I said before- if I lived in the desert I would likely have the plus-1 oil pan, oil cooler and do the crashbar conversion. ------Rethy