Thundermax Problem or Crankshaft?
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Georgia
Thundermax Problem or Crankshaft?
I have been having a pinging issue with my 07 Electraglide with 523 Map. I was instructed to go to 544. I loaded it, and it still pings at 2100 rpm 60 mph 40% to 100% throttle. I was told by Thundermax it is the crankshaft causing it on my bike. Said to be scissoring. Anyone else had this problem? I am absolutely sick about it, and I only have 3 months of warranty left. Do I need to strip it back stock and take it in to be checked or does anyone have any other recommendations? My bike will kick the clutch lever back out if you drop the throttle, and my 05 never did this. It also has a bit of vibration most of the time, but not anything more noticable that anyone else. Anyone? Thanks.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2009
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You can check crank runout yourself or pay an indy to do it.
If I were you at this point in your warranty, and considering how much you have to lose....I'd pay an reputable indy to check and document if the engine had a crank runout problem, then restore bike to stock and take to dealer to fix.
Time is not on yourside.
If I were you at this point in your warranty, and considering how much you have to lose....I'd pay an reputable indy to check and document if the engine had a crank runout problem, then restore bike to stock and take to dealer to fix.
Time is not on yourside.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
I used to have a ping issue when the weather got hot. A bit of editing in the timing and it's gone now.I took 2 degrees out. Most maps are aggressive in timing and need to be backed off a bit for high load, high heat conditions.I honestly don't see a connection to a scissored crank and pinging, but 2100 @60 is too much load for hard eccel. By dropping the factory knock sensing and map sensor it requires a little different engine management to get the most out of it with a fixed timing per tps position. Max timing is needed for power, but the load defines where max timing can be used. Tuning will be done for all high load conditions from a reasonable, lets say 3000 and up with no ping in the hottest day possible. Now hammer the throttle at 2100 in a gear that places too much load for the rpm and timing it will ping. This would fall under poor engine management. Hope this makes sense, as I suck at getting my point across at times.
Although the afrs will tune in, the timing has to be set manually. This can take considerable time to get right with the ride and tweak method, but much quicker on a dyno.
The helical setup in the 6 speed will make the clutch lever come towards you when you acellerate and back to normal when you decel with your fingers on the lever. Most do this and I would't sweat it. As designed we are all stuck with it. Shaft deflection is the cause. As the shaft moves to the left on acell it increases the clearance on the clutch pushrod and it's adjustment. If you feel the vibration level is comparable to any other bike, most likely the crank is ok. They will check the runout for you, but it will be out of pocket on your part.
Ron
Although the afrs will tune in, the timing has to be set manually. This can take considerable time to get right with the ride and tweak method, but much quicker on a dyno.The helical setup in the 6 speed will make the clutch lever come towards you when you acellerate and back to normal when you decel with your fingers on the lever. Most do this and I would't sweat it. As designed we are all stuck with it. Shaft deflection is the cause. As the shaft moves to the left on acell it increases the clearance on the clutch pushrod and it's adjustment. If you feel the vibration level is comparable to any other bike, most likely the crank is ok. They will check the runout for you, but it will be out of pocket on your part.
Ron
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
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From: TX
Scissored crank causing ping? WOW... that's a stretch!
It's the tune.
"Auto tune" is a misleading sales tactic. The device will attempt to tune in the particular AFR you tell it to tune.
Yes, the AFR YOU tell it. It is in the MAP YOU select.
What the device DOES NOT to is make any adjustment with regard to ignition timing. Again, it does what YOU tell it to do ~ also in the MAP you select.
The real challenge is getting BOTH the AFR AND timing advance set properly for YOUR bike. No two bikes are the same, regardless of make / model / components used. EVERY engine is unique and as a result, requires unique tuning to get it's OPTIMAL configuration. Improperly configured, either AFR or timing (or both) can and will cause pinging.
....but for anyone to tell you your crank is the root cause of pinging is totally ridiculous.
My suggestion to you is to avoid any/all advice from that source. Either they are totally incompetent or they are f'ing with you. Either case warrants no further engagement.
It's the tune.
"Auto tune" is a misleading sales tactic. The device will attempt to tune in the particular AFR you tell it to tune.
Yes, the AFR YOU tell it. It is in the MAP YOU select.
What the device DOES NOT to is make any adjustment with regard to ignition timing. Again, it does what YOU tell it to do ~ also in the MAP you select.
The real challenge is getting BOTH the AFR AND timing advance set properly for YOUR bike. No two bikes are the same, regardless of make / model / components used. EVERY engine is unique and as a result, requires unique tuning to get it's OPTIMAL configuration. Improperly configured, either AFR or timing (or both) can and will cause pinging.
....but for anyone to tell you your crank is the root cause of pinging is totally ridiculous.
My suggestion to you is to avoid any/all advice from that source. Either they are totally incompetent or they are f'ing with you. Either case warrants no further engagement.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 6
I used to have a ping issue when the weather got hot. A bit of editing in the timing and it's gone now.I took 2 degrees out. Most maps are aggressive in timing and need to be backed off a bit for high load, high heat conditions.I honestly don't see a connection to a scissored crank and pinging, but 2100 @60 is too much load for hard eccel. By dropping the factory knock sensing and map sensor it requires a little different engine management to get the most out of it with a fixed timing per tps position. Max timing is needed for power, but the load defines where max timing can be used. Tuning will be done for all high load conditions from a reasonable, lets say 3000 and up with no ping in the hottest day possible. Now hammer the throttle at 2100 in a gear that places too much load for the rpm and timing it will ping. This would fall under poor engine management. Hope this makes sense, as I suck at getting my point across at times. Although the afrs will tune in, the timing has to be set manually. This can take considerable time to get right with the ride and tweak method, but much quicker on a dyno.
The helical setup in the 6 speed will make the clutch lever come towards you when you acellerate and back to normal when you decel with your fingers on the lever. Most do this and I would't sweat it. As designed we are all stuck with it. Shaft deflection is the cause. As the shaft moves to the left on acell it increases the clearance on the clutch pushrod and it's adjustment. If you feel the vibration level is comparable to any other bike, most likely the crank is ok. They will check the runout for you, but it will be out of pocket on your part.
Ron
Although the afrs will tune in, the timing has to be set manually. This can take considerable time to get right with the ride and tweak method, but much quicker on a dyno.The helical setup in the 6 speed will make the clutch lever come towards you when you acellerate and back to normal when you decel with your fingers on the lever. Most do this and I would't sweat it. As designed we are all stuck with it. Shaft deflection is the cause. As the shaft moves to the left on acell it increases the clearance on the clutch pushrod and it's adjustment. If you feel the vibration level is comparable to any other bike, most likely the crank is ok. They will check the runout for you, but it will be out of pocket on your part.
Ron
We can de-tune a faulty engine to silence it somewhat, but Zippers ain't in the business of de-tuning faulty engines....I would investigate the crank first seeing as how his warranty is near expired....It's best to know what you got before you expect too much from it.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2007
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What gear are you in when you have the pinging problem? Is this a smooth roll on or are you hitting it hard -Depending what gear your in Don't hammer it under 2500 - you are asking for crank problems if you r doing that (lugging the crap out of it). what is your AFR set at above 40%? Map 544 is not for true duals it is for stock exhaust - maps 384, 393 and 523 are the best match to the set up in your signature
UD
UD
Last edited by uniondog; Feb 17, 2009 at 06:07 PM.
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 602
Likes: 51
From: central MN
PhilM is most likely right....but if you keep riding it like that, you very well COULD have crank issues.
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
I agree with all you posted, however I would hope the guys at T-max considered that first before suggesting his crank was toast....Perhaps they have lots of experience with bad HD cranks, or perhaps they called it wrong....Only a crank check will tell.
We can de-tune a faulty engine to silence it somewhat, but Zippers ain't in the business of de-tuning faulty engines....I would investigate the crank first seeing as how his warranty is near expired....It's best to know what you got before you expect too much from it.
We can de-tune a faulty engine to silence it somewhat, but Zippers ain't in the business of de-tuning faulty engines....I would investigate the crank first seeing as how his warranty is near expired....It's best to know what you got before you expect too much from it.
Ron
Ron
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
You can't do that to your motor. What will happen, if you get it not to ping, is that you will destroy the rod bearings.
If you're @ 60mph, running 2100 RPM and feel the need to twist it to 100% throttle.... you should first downshift. It will be much easier on the motor and the results will be superior.