Cam change report
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 2
From: USA
iclick, great write up and lots of good info from you and others as well.
I'm looking at cams one day, but hope to do heads and cylinders with them. Will cost a bit more, but I'm still waiting an saving.
I'm looking at cams one day, but hope to do heads and cylinders with them. Will cost a bit more, but I'm still waiting an saving.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Cams are in and dyno done - back back home!
Dropped the bike at HD last night.. they worked on it last night and most of today. Road it home in the rain, so didn't really get a chance to "run" the bike to see how it performed. Hopefully this rain will stop for a day this weekend :-(
So, this was the cam change (SE 255's) on a stage 1, 07 Ultra. It included a dyno tune, the dealer's dyno is a SuperFlow WinDyn (This dyno is generally 10-15% lower than measured on a DynoJet for the same bike). Because of the differences, I had them do a baseline run prior to doing the mods/tune.
The results:
Before mod: HP = 65 @5500 rpm, TQ = 79 @ 3600 rpm (stays above 70 til 4700 rpm)
After mod: HP = 74 @ 5500 rpm, TQ = 88 @ 3200 rpm (stays above 80 til 4700 rpm)
Corrected to the DynoJet, this would be about: HP = 82 and TQ = 97 - this is a little better than I'd hoped for, especially the gains in HP.
I've attached the SuperFlow chart. I think it is a pretty good curve. ATR is at 13.4 until cruise which is set around 14+.
07 Ultra, SE A/C, SE II Slip-ons, SERT and now SE 255 cams
So, this was the cam change (SE 255's) on a stage 1, 07 Ultra. It included a dyno tune, the dealer's dyno is a SuperFlow WinDyn (This dyno is generally 10-15% lower than measured on a DynoJet for the same bike). Because of the differences, I had them do a baseline run prior to doing the mods/tune.
The results:
Before mod: HP = 65 @5500 rpm, TQ = 79 @ 3600 rpm (stays above 70 til 4700 rpm)
After mod: HP = 74 @ 5500 rpm, TQ = 88 @ 3200 rpm (stays above 80 til 4700 rpm)
Corrected to the DynoJet, this would be about: HP = 82 and TQ = 97 - this is a little better than I'd hoped for, especially the gains in HP.
I've attached the SuperFlow chart. I think it is a pretty good curve. ATR is at 13.4 until cruise which is set around 14+.
07 Ultra, SE A/C, SE II Slip-ons, SERT and now SE 255 cams
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 434
Likes: 1
From: Port St Lucie, FL
Is this a good deal...???
I have all the parts to do the SE255 CAM swap and the SE Compensator at the same time.
Here's what I want to know if it is a good fair deal:
I was at my dealer today they offered me the following. They said they would do my 5000 mile service (me providing the Amsoil), 3 Baseline dyno runs (before Cams & Compensator), Install the Cams & Compensator (with me providing the parts), and do 3 more dyno runs for $550. I have $495 in all the parts right now, so for $995, I would get a 5K service, 6 dyno runs and all labor. Do you think this makes the pot sweet enough to let them do it?
My thinking is that they will be more likely to honor any furutre warranty claim I may have (providing no foul play on my part) if I throw them a bone and get the work done by them. Normally they just see me at the dealership for parts I can't find cheaper on the internet, this would build a little bit of repore with the service department.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Here's what I want to know if it is a good fair deal:
I was at my dealer today they offered me the following. They said they would do my 5000 mile service (me providing the Amsoil), 3 Baseline dyno runs (before Cams & Compensator), Install the Cams & Compensator (with me providing the parts), and do 3 more dyno runs for $550. I have $495 in all the parts right now, so for $995, I would get a 5K service, 6 dyno runs and all labor. Do you think this makes the pot sweet enough to let them do it?
My thinking is that they will be more likely to honor any furutre warranty claim I may have (providing no foul play on my part) if I throw them a bone and get the work done by them. Normally they just see me at the dealership for parts I can't find cheaper on the internet, this would build a little bit of repore with the service department.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Fair price
NAUIdvr1, It's probably a fair price. When they did my install, they included 5 hours for the cam/lifter and oil change, did a baseline run and then a complete tune. HD put in 2 hours for the dyno, but probably spent 3-4 hours on the dyno and only charged me for two hours the tech's time (no dyno time). The normal dyno tune is $240+tax but HD only charged $112. However, I had worked with the owner to get this price, so it was a DEAL! btw, I do all my service work with them, so have a pretty good relationship.
I think it was necessary to do the complete tune after the upgrade. They wound up doing a lot of low rpm work to set up the proper throttle levels. On the initial pull, my AFRs were set at 9.0 max. This was way too rich and in fact, I had noticed that my MPG was pretty bad. After the tune, my AFRs were 13.4.
I don't know how happy you will be without a tune... do you have good maps for the change? iclick said he's was pretty much right on, so a tune wasn't needed. Others have said they didn't have good maps for the change and needed a tune to get it running correctly.
I think it was necessary to do the complete tune after the upgrade. They wound up doing a lot of low rpm work to set up the proper throttle levels. On the initial pull, my AFRs were set at 9.0 max. This was way too rich and in fact, I had noticed that my MPG was pretty bad. After the tune, my AFRs were 13.4.
I don't know how happy you will be without a tune... do you have good maps for the change? iclick said he's was pretty much right on, so a tune wasn't needed. Others have said they didn't have good maps for the change and needed a tune to get it running correctly.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Wow, iclick, you must be a very analytical guy. Simply put, you make sense on balancing simplicity and performance gains.
I think I won't need a Stage II upgrade for my Dyna. A 255 swap will most likely do the job. Well done.
I think I won't need a Stage II upgrade for my Dyna. A 255 swap will most likely do the job. Well done.
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Being frugal by nature (i.e. cheap bastard) I always analyze cost over result, and for me this mod was a cheap bastard's dream come true.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 434
Likes: 1
From: Port St Lucie, FL
P.S. So if anyone has a map for a PC-V for a 2009 setup similar to mine, with SE 255's, and would be willing to share, I would be appreciative (PM me if you want to discuss $, helping you pay for that map would only be fair).
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
I always appreciate a guy that takes the time to do it right and then give a good analysis.
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
From: Dallas / Ft. Worth, Texas
Don't know if this helps or not. My 2007 FLHT has the now discontinued SE Race Tuner and is prior to throttle by wire. The tuner started out with the canned map for the 103 inch motor with the SE 255 and adjusted it to my stock 96 inch motor. I thought that was interesting that he didn't start with the canned map for the 96 inch stage I motor and work up.
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Don't know if this helps or not. My 2007 FLHT has the now discontinued SE Race Tuner and is prior to throttle by wire. The tuner started out with the canned map for the 103 inch motor with the SE 255 and adjusted it to my stock 96 inch motor. I thought that was interesting that he didn't start with the canned map for the 96 inch stage I motor and work up.