NAME A MILWAUKEE AREA TUNER PLEASEEE!!! I JUST WANT TO FIND A GOOD ONE! thx in advance.

 

Thanks for the heads up, very informative.

 

Thanks for the info, I just had my bike done. Now I will look a bit more closley to the print outs. Gotta love the duty experts.

 

Harleytuner Where Are You Located At In Ohio As Im From Ohio Lookin For A Good Tune You Can PM With Location And Number Thanks

 

And then there is Factory Pro (the one I use)

Problem:

Today, about 75% of the entire world's hp values are a mess of dynojet "hp", dynojet clone's rough approximations of dynojet horsepower , some brake dyno mfgr's "dynojet channel" that's "+/- 10% of a dj number" , some dynos that out exaggerate the dj numbers and imply that they know what the transmission hp and crank hp is, and even other dynos with the most expensive brochure that read whatever the user wants them to read, True, Real, SF and DJ..... (sigh...)

All because some guy thought that a 1985 prerelease version V Max made 145 crank hp according to the marketing dept. and he couldn't have his "new" inertia dyno read 90 hp on a stock dealership V-Max. Well, he WAS right at 85-90, but he made it read 120 to sell more people on his dynos. And that's where the chassis dyno hp mess started.

Simple Solution:

True HP.
Every dyno company can all do it.


DEF:
Corrected True HP is the:
Actual power under Steady State or Sweep with CORRECT inertial mass value at 20 f/ps
delivered to the drive roller of a chassis dyno
to which is ONLY added the dyne coast down parasitics and then
corrected to existing atmospheric test conditions.


Factory Pro has confidentially refused to exaggerate measured and corrected horsepower figures to sell more dynos.

Since Factory Pro hasn't rescaled horsepower for the last 20 year and our software reads the same files the same from the very first EC997 dyne system.

Some Dynamometer companies add to measured rear wheel power readings a factor that is based on ESTIMATED rear wheel power losses (under what power conditions? 125cc? 1200cc? under coasting conditions? with a 3.00x17 bias ply tire? a 190x17 radial tire? New heavy radial tire vs. worn old, light, stock bias ply tire? Who knows?)

In short, there is NO meaningful "average" tire to get a correct rear tire power transmission loss measurement for all bikes - so obviously, unless they actually measure the power lost in the rear tire, under driven load conditions, NO dyno company should BE ADDING incorrect power figures into the measured power. It's simply wrong.

The fact that they add varying amounts of power to the actual, "true" amount of power delivered and measured to the surface of the drive roller creates a situation that makes it an onerous task to compare power figures from different brands of dynamometer systems.

On simple inertial dynamometers, some (most, actually, all that I know of in the MC market) companies use an average for the inertial mass value of the engine, transmission, rear wheel, sprocket and chain on every bike - as if a YZ125 has the same rear wheel or internal rotating mass as a 1340cc Harley Davidson. Needless to say, if the software thinks that the YZ125 had a HD rear wheel on it, it would look like the 125 makes more HP at the rear wheel than it does at the crankshaft. It's simply wrong.
And - that's why you hear of 125cc Karts that make 43 hp at the rear wheels!!!!!

It's expensive to measure frictional losses in the engine and drivetrain, requiring the dyno to be able to drive the vehicle with engine off. Add the cost of a 50+hp electric motor, controlled power supply, etc. It's just not likely that $20,000 dyno will be equipped with that equipment.

It is also common for dynamometer companies to add to the power readings by adding transmission and primary gear/chain losses back into the measured power readings. Some companies make a concerted effort try to measure frictional losses and, optionally, add the power to the measured readings. Other companies - some that would surprise you - say that it's not important and give a blanket, single factor for frictional losses in every engine. That includes some $25,000-$35,000 dynes.

Some simply say that there is a meaningful "average" for every motorcycle,(2 stroke, 4 stroke, 1 cylinder/1 transmission, 4 cylinder/1 transmission) and apply it to every bike and that it is not a significant difference.

Blanket estimates of "average" losses and corrections are, quite simply, incorrect. At the upper levels of the industry, (we are talking about $150,000 - $500,000 AC or DC 4 quadrant dynamometers) it is not tolerated - shouldn't be - and needn't be.

There is a dyno company that actually has different versions of software that displays their own identical data files as different amounts of power depending on whether you use the DOS version or the Windows version of their software!!

True Rear Wheel Horsepower (tm) is Factory Pro's standard of measuring the power that is actually delivered to the rear wheel. It is honest, true, fair and duplicable. It is the ONLY standard that can be duplicated by the entire industry - regardless of the dyno manufacturer.

 

It's all about making the bike breath better, getting the exhaust out with as little restriction as possible.True dual headpipes help the spent gasses exit more freely. The bikes need a little backpressure also, so good slip ons help give the bike some backpressure.

 

Unfortunately it's not realistic for a dyno shop to combat heat soak, time just won't allow it. When we really get going in the summer we dyno 3 bikes a day, so that's 9 to 10 hours give or take. We just don't have the time to let bikes cool down between runs. I have 2 blowers on them at all times and I keep the temperature of the engine btween 120 and 200 degrees if it gets above 210 Deg. I let it idle for a bit to cool off. That's usually only an issue in the dead middle of summer when I am doing a bike with lower fairings on it. Yes we use load, and very little time is ysed on timing. When I am done with my A/F calibration, I usually advance or retard the timing 3 degrees and make 3 quick WOT passes, if the lines smooth out i'll try going up or down another couple degrees to see if they improve more, do that till I go to far, then back it off to where it liked it the most. When you are done you should have nice smooth lines, none of this sawblade looking stuff i've seen posted.

 

Thanks man. I'm a certified tech as well, so I do my fair share of wrenching. We have another tuner that is VERY good, he relieves me when I need a break.

 

While I agree some tuners do not do all that should be done I also disagree with a lot of what Harleytuner is saying. The AFR lines on a graph are pretty much meaningless, it gives someone a comfort zone and that's as good as it gets. A complete tune requires more time than most are willing to spend so very few are getting one and event what Harleytuner has described is not near a full tune. I'm not trying to start anything here so please do not take it that way.

I am the guy that designed the SERT that HD sold as a private label product for 8 years so I know a few things most others do not. The training that HD gives there people on tuning is a joke at best, so who's fault is that? Then there is the dyno wars, but for the time being let's leave them alone as they do nothing for a tuneup. One needs to remember one simple thing. A dyno is a tool, used properly it makes doing the job much easier but it can and has been done for years without them. The Super Tuner, SERT, Mastertune or any other tuning device is just another tool and the same rules apply. If the operator of the tool does not do it right, it isn't the tools fault, its the tuners fault!

Every build is different and every tuner is different that doesn't mean one way or the other is the only way to do it. What I can tell you is you the customer has to be the judge of how well it was done. Mastertune does more and does it better and quicker than any other tool on the market, period. That doesn't mean your going to get a better job just because it was used! So where does this leave us? It means people have to get back to the basics and understand the relationship between the ECM and the engine to tune it properly. If that is not understood your tune-up is going to suffer.

To get a good running and riding bike means 95% of the work is going to be spent at part throttle as that is where you ride. Setting the AFR up to a fixed value is just a method to allow the calibration of the VE tables for your build. How do you know that the AFR is right for your build? Just because it's the values that I or HD sets in does not mean it's right for your build. It's up to the tuner to adjust and find out what is right. The same goes for the spark tables. I've put the base calibrations together to get the tuner close but it is still up to him/her to finish it up!

 

Steve, your comments don't really help me. I don't read anything that tells me what to expect or how to know if my bike is tuned right.

I was getting about 40 mpg and my bike ran nice. I had SE 211 cams put in and had dual dressers added and my new tune (done by the same guy) gave me 33 mpg. Is my bike tuned right? How do I know if it is?