I don't even have a job right now...........3 months out of work.

Steve

 

Sorry folks, I went back and did more research... I was wrong. The auto tune kit for HD touring bikes does come with 2 modules and O2 sensors and costs $370.00. It was the other auto tune kit that they make that has only one O2 and costs $250.00. Still PCV with auto tune does have a hefty price tag on it. PCV= $370.00 and Auto tune= $370.00 so total of $740.00 to Thundermax at $950.00. They both cost a lot so choose the one that you feel comfortable with.

 

Respectfully, none of this is true. First, the PCV-AT works on any Delphi EFI Harley (2002-2009), and Fuel Moto has them for all these years. I have AT installed on my '07 SG and it works flawlessly. I changed cams last month and all I needed to do was start the bike and the tuning process began. As usual I made things more complex by creating two maps and installing a switch, one for mileage and the other for cooling, which can be toggled on the fly, but even that was easy. You can read about my install procedure here.

Second, the AT modules are $300 for the entire kit, not just one module, and includes two wide-band O2 sensors. The total cost is $600 from Fuel Moto, which includes an accurate base map for your configuration, but I can't say what some other dealer is charging.

Most don't find the wiring to be "messy clusters going everywhere," which is an exaggeration, as the PCV is plug-and-play. Once installed you leave it alone. AT requires replacing the O2 sensors, but if routed properly the wires are not "messy" or otherwise a problem.

Here are some disadvantages of the T'Max:

1. T'Max does not include a knock-sensor, while the PCV (either AT or non-AT) works with the stock ion-discharge sensor.

2. T'Max uses only a portion of the stock MAP sensor's functions, while PCV utitilizes its full capacity.

3. T'Max has no map-switching capability. One great feature of the PCIII/PCV is their ability to switch maps using a simply on-off switch. This is useful in that one map can be lean for better mileage while the other richer for cooling. I use my lean map 99% of the time, but if the going gets hot in summer traffic I will switch to the rich map to cool things down.

4. PCV has other features not included with T'Max, and you can read about them on the PC site.

Jamie at Fuel Moto sells both PCV and T'Max, as well as other EFI controllers. For more info give him a call, as he will steer you toward what's good for your needs, not what he wants to sell you. He knows the pros and cons of all EFI controllers on the market.

I will tell you that he has always used the PCIII and PCV in his Power Package, which is IMO the best Stage 1 kit on the market for the money, perhaps even the best if cost isn't a factor.

 

You need to shop around. FM's prices are better than that on the PC V.

 

yup, I was using the MSRP on both units for my figures.

 

I am using Fuel Moto's base map for the 255 cams which includes adjustment to the ignition tables. I then tweaked the cruise range a bit by adding 1° more advance, which works for me and the gas I use here, but adding more creates incipient detonation. It is corrected by the knock-sensor but I don't want any ping at all. I left Jamie's dyno-tuned ignition settings intact for 80-100% TP, as they are accurate.

The fact that the ignition tables are not auto-tuned is not IMO a make-or-break proposition. The important thing is to have an accurate base map and that is available at Fuel Moto, standard with every PCV and PCV-AT they sell.

 

Okay then.........

 

Incipient??? are there different kinds of detonation

 

If you don't have a competent tuner, or aren't willing/able to travel to one, then the Auto Tune systems are probably your best option.

Personally, I would rather have a spot on SERT/TTS tune over an auto tune. While WOT peak hp/tq numbers may be somewhat close for both systems, the rideability of a spot on SERT/TTS tune is something you have to experience to believe. Ask some others on here that have done it. PhilM and Dalton come to mind. Both have ditched auto tune systems for SERT/TTS tuners and both reported virtually no loss in performance, but big gains in rideability.

Just my .02
Zach

 

What rideability issues will you have if the target AFR's specified in the PCV-AT tables are "spot on" like they would be after a competent dyno tune? I have not encountered any and would like to know what specific problems these other people had.

Rideability (vs. performance) issues would imply part-throttle operation. Since that is controlled by the target AFR tables like they are with a dyno-tune, where is the inherent problem with Auto-Tune? If you specify the wrong targets you will have rideability issues, but if they are correct you should be no worse off that with a competent dyno-tune. Both are only metering the fuel, so what's the difference?