OK folks, here it is. My experience with exhaust changes goes like this; I, like many others, wanted a deeper, more "Harley" sound from my exhaust. At my 1000 service I had the dealer install the SE street legal muffs. "They'll get louder" I was told by many. Well, they did get a little louder over time, but still not what I was after. At about the 8000 mile mark I decided that maybe I could put some different baffles in the SE's. I contacted Big City Thunder (great bunch of people, real patient) and decided to try some of their baffles. But I was going to attempt to remove the old ones first. Well after nearly destroying a perfectly good set of mufflers, I bit the bullet and bought a set of Rush mufflers instead. Now the debate rages on mufflers with or without some sort of tuner. I asked a LOT of questions of service writers, tuners, independent wrenches, etc., etc.. I came away with what I thought was a good idea of what would or would not work for me (I heard what I wanted to hear). I bought the slash down Rush muffs with the 2" baffles. About an hour after I got them home, they were on and looked awesome. And the SOUND was music to my ears! Real deep rumble, great bark at acceleration. I was SET! Not so fast...I did notice a few adverse effects. The loss of low end TQ...the heat on the thighs was more intense...and then, on one of the first hot days of the year, I heard that noise. Yep, the dreaded PING! I babied my scoot home, and after opening a cold one, pondered my next step. Fast forward to a couple days ago and I've put some 1.5" baffles in the mufflers. The bike runs a ton better. They don't sound near as good as the 2s but they'll do while I save the dough to do all this RIGHT. Which brings me to the point of this long-winded post: SAVE YOUR MONEY BY DOING IT RIGHT! All the guys that say "you don't need a tuner" may not think you do, but I would be curious to see the tops of the pistons in 10-20-30,000 miles. After spending time and money chasing a sound, I wish I would have called Fuelmoto at the very begining. I hope this keeps someone else from making the same errors. Sorry this is so long, but I had to put it out there...

 

You are absolutely correct. These bikes run lean from the factory. Opening the exhaust only adds to the problems (even though you may not do the air cleaner). The ECM cannot make the necessary adjustments regardless of what the dealer says. These bikes need more fuel....even in stock form! In fact, even a Stage 1 download with pipes and air cleaner change is still on the lean side. I have seen dynos that show AFR as high as 15 to 16 to 1 on bikes with a Stage 1 download. But hey....its only a $20K bike that is air cooled. Why spend a few hundred fixing the problem and cooling it down...

 

I agree, get a FMS of some sort.

 

As Toby Keith would say..
"Gotta gitcha sum gotta gitcha sum!!! Fuel system

 

Good post. I was told along time ago don't spend your money twice. I plan upgrades
in the future including exhaust but I am not going to do anything until I do cams. Right now the 07 96" cleans up on most of my clubmembers' bikes because they made modifications that sound good with loud exhaust but the are hurting their torque.
Its all about proper combination.

 

I thought the HD muffler dance was a traditional right of passage. If you don't go through it your not a "real" Harley biker!

 

Just think how much money and heartache you could have saved if not for the EPA looking after us.

 

When I added the cams to my bike they just installed the Stage II map at this time with a couple hundred miles on the bike I am vary pleased with the performance. Some of the stealers say that I needed a sert or the pro version but where I purchased the bike from they said it was not necessary.. I don't really know...????

 

atrox88, you hit the nail on the head! "Don't spend your money twice" Not the first time my hard head got me in a spot, probably will not be the last...

 

nemick, I remember the days when you could buy a 300 dollar set of pipes and a 40 dollar jet kit and start tuning by plug color! Those were the good old days, I think. Thanks EPA!