PCV AutoTune and New Cam Question
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth, Texas
PCV AutoTune and New Cam Question
I am looking at upgrading the stock cam in my 96 to either a SE 204, 255, or Andrews 26H. I have the PCV with AT that I purchased from Fuel Moto.
When I change the cam out on the bike will the AT tune the bike correctly for the new cam? I was understanding that when a cam is changed that the bike has to be dyno tuned and timing set appropriately. I called and talked to Fuel Moto and told the gentleman what I was wanting to do with regards to a cam change and he informed me that the AT will tune the bike for the new changed cam.
I asked him whether AT will change the time on the motor and he said no only the AFR. Also, that they did not have any base programs for a cam change but they could create something if needed.
So my question is whether the bike has to be dyno tuned for a base map then the AT to set the AFR correctly? Or am I missing something?
When I change the cam out on the bike will the AT tune the bike correctly for the new cam? I was understanding that when a cam is changed that the bike has to be dyno tuned and timing set appropriately. I called and talked to Fuel Moto and told the gentleman what I was wanting to do with regards to a cam change and he informed me that the AT will tune the bike for the new changed cam.
I asked him whether AT will change the time on the motor and he said no only the AFR. Also, that they did not have any base programs for a cam change but they could create something if needed.
So my question is whether the bike has to be dyno tuned for a base map then the AT to set the AFR correctly? Or am I missing something?
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
I'm quite sure the Fuel Moto guys will have a basemap for you. I would get that and load it on the PCV. The AT will then clearly trim to hit the right AFR.
But it's correct that the AT will NOT alter the timing at all. You'll need a basemap that already has that dialed in. I doubt you'll need a dyno as the map you get from Fuel Moto should be close enough.
But it's correct that the AT will NOT alter the timing at all. You'll need a basemap that already has that dialed in. I doubt you'll need a dyno as the map you get from Fuel Moto should be close enough.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 189
Likes: 2
From: Clancy,Montana
I had just the PCV on my 07 ultra and a map from Fuel Moto and the bike ran great,then i had HeadQuarters 500 cams installed and a new map from Jamie, at first i thought i wasted my money on the cams because not much of a change in power until i added the auto tune, after accepting trims a couple times the bike performs totally different, more power,throttle response and mileage.
My opinion is just add the cams and let auto tune do its thing
My opinion is just add the cams and let auto tune do its thing
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: West Tenn
FM hooked me up with a base map for my 09SG when I dropped in the SE211. I rode the PCV with AT and accepted trims for about 500 miles before I took it into see where I was at on the dyno. Chris K at Bumpus HD in Jackson Tn did 4 pulls. Together we tweaked the PC on the dyno for about 5 minutes, and it yielded an extra 5HP and 3fpt. The AT was close, but the 5 minutes of smotthing things out on the dyno could really be felt......I could only imagine what a full tune would yield.
The AT actually tunes up really quickly so youll see positive results after the first couple of rides. Once you get comfortable with trimming and the tables, you can safely start experimenting with AFR tables and timing........
HAVE FUN!
The AT actually tunes up really quickly so youll see positive results after the first couple of rides. Once you get comfortable with trimming and the tables, you can safely start experimenting with AFR tables and timing........
HAVE FUN!
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
You're getting good advice here, IMO. After swapping cams I would have Fuel Moto send you the closest map they have as a starter, then let AT do the rest. Ignition timing isn't as big a concern as you might think, as they are fairly similar between setups, and WOT timing for mine with 255's is the same as stock.
I did add some advance in the cruise range (2-3°) to increase mileage and cooling, and as long as I don't exceed this amount I get no detonation. That was one of the big surprises after upgrading cams since I expected a need to retard the timing a bit in the cruise range to compensate for the increase in CCP from the cams' early intake close (25°). It was quite the opposite as it turned out.
My theory is that the ideal settings at part-throttle are as high as it can tolerate during a roll-on. IOW, 4° causes light detonation but 3° does not, so that's my setting. I could sense no performance difference after making those changes to the cruise range, however.
You've made a good list of candidates, IMO, but be advised that the 204's and TW26's will likely hurt the low-end a bit using stock CR. The 255's will not and will give a nice boost from 2300-4500, although will likely give less peak HP (above 5k RPM) than the other two options. It just depends on what you're looking for.
I did add some advance in the cruise range (2-3°) to increase mileage and cooling, and as long as I don't exceed this amount I get no detonation. That was one of the big surprises after upgrading cams since I expected a need to retard the timing a bit in the cruise range to compensate for the increase in CCP from the cams' early intake close (25°). It was quite the opposite as it turned out.
My theory is that the ideal settings at part-throttle are as high as it can tolerate during a roll-on. IOW, 4° causes light detonation but 3° does not, so that's my setting. I could sense no performance difference after making those changes to the cruise range, however.
You've made a good list of candidates, IMO, but be advised that the 204's and TW26's will likely hurt the low-end a bit using stock CR. The 255's will not and will give a nice boost from 2300-4500, although will likely give less peak HP (above 5k RPM) than the other two options. It just depends on what you're looking for.
Trending Topics
senior experienced all-knowing leader of the unwise
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 351
From: USA
Using SE 204's on a 103 with 10:1 compression i was able to advance the timing 4 degrees at WOT higher RPM's down to 1 degree advance at lower rpms with no detonation. I used some of the canned maps timing settings to start with. The autotune seemed to work fine tuning that combo. It will pull the front wheel off the ground. I'm sure i could get a horse or two more by tuning it on a dyno for power instead of mileage but i like getting 42 mpg average on a 800 pound touring bike. Seems like you could do the same thing with the autotune by setting the AFR's though.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 6
From: Mayfield Ohio
The autotune will get your AFR spot on. You will need Fuelmoto to give you a map for timing. Or you will have to have a shop Dyno run your bike after your AFR is set and only tune your timing
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 435
Likes: 2
From: Alberta, Canada
Remember, cam lift and duration numbers don't tell the whole story, it's the whole package that determines how a cam affects each bike. If it was that easy, cam manufacturers would all simply create the perfect cam grind and nobody could claim their product is better than the other guys. It would save them a lot on advertising, though.