Inside my Primary.....WTF?(PICS)
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
This may be the wrong place to ask, but does anyone understand the logic of the teeth design on the Harley models? It seems that when it ratchet ups to tight, your basically stuck until you pull off the outter primary and physically pull it down. The wedge seems to make more logical sense, but what is Harley's teeth design trying to do in the first place?
Beary
Beary
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
This may be the wrong place to ask, but does anyone understand the logic of the teeth design on the Harley models? It seems that when it ratchet ups to tight, your basically stuck until you pull off the outter primary and physically pull it down. The wedge seems to make more logical sense, but what is Harley's teeth design trying to do in the first place?
Beary
Beary
If your chain was loose, you took it up a tooth or two. These spring loaded thingies are supposed to do that automatically. Not sure if there is any hope of compensating for "too tight" though. Maybe that newer version with less teeth has a chance?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
If you look at the older style "manual adjust" models, they had teeth too.
If your chain was loose, you took it up a tooth or two. These spring loaded thingies are supposed to do that automatically. Not sure if there is any hope of compensating for "too tight" though. Maybe that newer version with less teeth has a chance?
If your chain was loose, you took it up a tooth or two. These spring loaded thingies are supposed to do that automatically. Not sure if there is any hope of compensating for "too tight" though. Maybe that newer version with less teeth has a chance?
Beary
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Yes, you can hear the belt whine when it was adjusted too tight on the manual adjusted models. That was the good clue to go back in and readjust it. My 09 has the same type of whine since day 1, but I can't go in to adjust it. As I said, three different dealership have told me the whine is normal. But I remember them also telling when I had the old bike that a tight belt could damage the engine. So I'm skeptical.
Beary
Beary
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 55
From: Bay Area
I bought a hydraullic model for my 99 evo, didnt care for the design and bought the first gen HD auto tensioner. In 20k miles never had an issue then my 07 came with the stock one and again in over 20k never had an issue.
One thing I know for sure is once the chain iss set too tight it stresses the rollers on the chain and the whine will never go away, Found that out when experimenting on the 99.
Someone asked how does the teeth work. In theory any slack developed in the chain will be taken up by the very fine teeth adjustment, and it will never back off. It cant over tighten without the chain wearing, it can only allow enough slack between one tooth to another, if it were to jump multiple teeth and over tighten, you have a junk chain that is going to grenade and immanently fail and it should be replaced ASAP.
One thing I know for sure is once the chain iss set too tight it stresses the rollers on the chain and the whine will never go away, Found that out when experimenting on the 99.
Someone asked how does the teeth work. In theory any slack developed in the chain will be taken up by the very fine teeth adjustment, and it will never back off. It cant over tighten without the chain wearing, it can only allow enough slack between one tooth to another, if it were to jump multiple teeth and over tighten, you have a junk chain that is going to grenade and immanently fail and it should be replaced ASAP.
Thread Starter
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,294
Likes: 33
From: Po-Dunk Looziana
Mike, I thought the EXACT same thing and was also going to make the same comment.....LOL! It being Italian made certainly makes it faster.
The clutch spring in the pic show Made In America, that's probably why it too works so well for me. LOL.
I've got mixed feelings on which concept is "better", but it does seem the wedge would keep the APPROPRIATE amount of pressure on the chain at all times, moreso, than either too loose or too tight. All I know at this point is what I've reported. It shifts better with less noise resonating from the primary. I have a feeling the smaller spined tensioner would flex and allow the teeth to slip, but I don't have proof so mere speculation.
I'm going to try the new one for awhile, for it's not much trouble to take the primary cover off and put the wedge in if this doesn't work out and at that time I'll probably do the SE Compensator as well just because I like new stuff....LOL.
I didn't do the compensator because I don't want to grind anything, I'll take the whole primary apart. Uhhhhh....that'll mean I'll have to buy a chrome INNER primary as well. Geez.
The clutch spring in the pic show Made In America, that's probably why it too works so well for me. LOL.I've got mixed feelings on which concept is "better", but it does seem the wedge would keep the APPROPRIATE amount of pressure on the chain at all times, moreso, than either too loose or too tight. All I know at this point is what I've reported. It shifts better with less noise resonating from the primary. I have a feeling the smaller spined tensioner would flex and allow the teeth to slip, but I don't have proof so mere speculation.
I'm going to try the new one for awhile, for it's not much trouble to take the primary cover off and put the wedge in if this doesn't work out and at that time I'll probably do the SE Compensator as well just because I like new stuff....LOL.
I didn't do the compensator because I don't want to grind anything, I'll take the whole primary apart. Uhhhhh....that'll mean I'll have to buy a chrome INNER primary as well. Geez.
Last edited by UltraKla$$ic; Dec 22, 2009 at 10:24 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
What we need is some vender to put a primary upgrade package together. It would include the wedge tensioner, SE compensator and chrome inner primary. Oh, and some really good installation instructions with pictures.
Beary
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 12
From: SE Florida
Bagman,
Which Hydraulic Tensioner Model did you use? It seems Southern Oregon has two different models, the H125 and the Wedge. I'm curious what the real difference is. Maybe Dawg could explain it to me!?!? I just recently put one in, but I'm not sure which version in the OP photo it is. And the photo in HD website shows the 'thinner' version, at least to my eyes it is.
So??
Which Hydraulic Tensioner Model did you use? It seems Southern Oregon has two different models, the H125 and the Wedge. I'm curious what the real difference is. Maybe Dawg could explain it to me!?!? I just recently put one in, but I'm not sure which version in the OP photo it is. And the photo in HD website shows the 'thinner' version, at least to my eyes it is.
So??
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 4
From: Here
Unless I'm mistaken, the HB125 is for pre '07 models that had the manual adjuster. Notice how the brackets look different? The wedge is a replacement for the standard HD auto adjuster that was introduced in '07.
Sorry, should have clicked the Wedge link. Last time I looked, they were only for '07 and up. Now available for all of them.
Sorry, should have clicked the Wedge link. Last time I looked, they were only for '07 and up. Now available for all of them.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28,552
Likes: 3,954
From: Vermont
Bagman,
Which Hydraulic Tensioner Model did you use? It seems Southern Oregon has two different models, the H125 and the Wedge. I'm curious what the real difference is. Maybe Dawg could explain it to me!?!? I just recently put one in, but I'm not sure which version in the OP photo it is. And the photo in HD website shows the 'thinner' version, at least to my eyes it is.
So??
Which Hydraulic Tensioner Model did you use? It seems Southern Oregon has two different models, the H125 and the Wedge. I'm curious what the real difference is. Maybe Dawg could explain it to me!?!? I just recently put one in, but I'm not sure which version in the OP photo it is. And the photo in HD website shows the 'thinner' version, at least to my eyes it is.
So??