2010 Cat

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Feb 15, 2010 | 08:04 PM

#31

hd110

Intermediate

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 47

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From: Lillian, Al.

The 2010 touring bikes are running a richer afr, due to mainly two things, the cat,and using what is know as a Lamda sytem, versus air fuel. It can get very complecated. but the non Lambda sytems range for 14.6 to 14.65 typically. The Lambda systems range from 14.3 to 14.5 depending on load and rpm. Another interesting thing is the Lambda bikes O2 sensors start feeding back information after aprox 10 seconds after the bike is started due to the fact that they are a heated sensor. While the afr bikes have to reach aprox 165 deg f.

While i have not made a comparision with just slip on exhaust with a cat, i have replaced to cats, one on a 2009 cvo with a fatcat and the other on a 2010 unlimited with rinehart true duals. here are the dyno results on the unlimited.

This Is on a 2010 FLHTK LE 103
The Bike Gained 24% increase in Hp and 23% increase in Tq
There are 4 Dyno runs Each Represents:
1 Stock
2 Ness Stage 1 and Rinehart True Duals
3 Above and TTS Calibration
4 Above and Custom Tune
Notice not only the power gains across the board, but the general smoothness of the graph after the tuning.
The customer had a complaint that the bike had a bad stumble/ hesitation. He was very unhappy with the new bike and thought of selling it, after the exhaust air cleaner TTS and tune he was immediately happy with the bike. He said the hesitation/stumble was eliminated, the bike of course accelerated better and smoother while increasing his fuel

mileage

. My firm belief is that the TTS is almost a necessary for tbw bikes especially 2010 with the Lambda Sensors.
( or a similar tuner that allows you to adjust throtle blade control.)

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Feb 15, 2010 | 08:15 PM

#32

NoCoLoco

Road Warrior

Joined: Jul 2009

Posts: 1,979

Likes: 2

From: Northern Colorado

I didn't notice any difference in power, sound was a little more muffled but not by much but I did notice more heat coming from the headers. According to American Rider magazine the excess heat causes brown discoloration about half way back on the muffler body on the 2-1 but I didn't keep them long enough to have that happen.

Feb 15, 2010 | 08:29 PM

#33

ScreamineagleSERG

Advanced

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 91

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From: Fox Valley, Wisconsin

Get rid of it

You have a wopping 69HP stock with your beloved cat! Jamie at Fuel Moto changed out the header with a Jackpot and added a cam on my brothers Limited. After the tune he has a healthy 100HP and 107TQ. Thats 110 CVO numbers! Dump the cat for sure.

Feb 16, 2010 | 08:07 AM

#34

Wes10RG

Tourer

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 456

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From: Dallas, TX

I suspected my 2010 with the cat to be running a bit richer than my stock 07 FLTR. When I rode it home for 5 hrs it seemed to be about as cool as the 2007 I traded in that had a Stage 1 plus a dynotune from the Dyno guy in Richardson, TX. The heat from my stock 2007 was the worse I've ever experienced on any bike I ever owned and was not going to be solved by installing midframe air deflectors or some other band-aid.

Also, my fuel economy sucks from day 1. Probably getting mid 30's.
I've put 800 miles on it bone stock and just added the HD/Supertrapp Nightstick slip-on muffler and put another 100 miles on it. I might just have to pull it apart (well, not me) to see what my pistons look like and get a proper fix done with the help of a few guys here like PhilM.

My wife tells me this is my last bike so I'm going to do all the things I need/want to to get it right.

I did start my comments with "2010 Cat" so I guess I can't be accused of jacking the thread. LOL

Feb 16, 2010 | 07:16 PM

#35

fuelmoto

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Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 7,287

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From: Little Chute, WI

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd110

mileage

. My firm belief is that the TTS is almost a necessary for tbw bikes especially 2010 with the Lambda Sensors.
( or a similar tuner that allows you to adjust throtle blade control.)

The idle/cruise/closed loop area of the 2010 bikes are not richer than the earlier models, and by comparison several areas are actually leaner. Some differences compared to earlier models are more advanced ignition timing in some areas to decrease EGT, and much more acc enrichment. On our 2010 bike we have invested hundreds of hours of R&D and before we started tuning I spent several hours datalogging the AFR, igntion timing, injectors, etc.. Thru out the entire cruise range and closed loop areas the actual AFR varies from 14.6-15.0 as measured with a wideband O2 sensor. The fact that the ECM now uses a Lamda table instead of AFR table is simply a different representation of same factor. These bike run fine in their stock form, but have huge potential with just bolt on mods. We have tuned many, many of these bikes and there are proven, signifigant gains by replacing the restrictive air cleaner, exhaust systems and tuning the EFI.

__________________

Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com

Feb 16, 2010 | 07:40 PM

#36

Shrug

Elite HDF Member

Joined: Aug 2006

Posts: 3,759

Likes: 1

From: Republic of Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktm_scott

I have a friend that builds race cars who is a talented welder. He cut out another friend's cat. I'll decide my approach after Jamie sets me up.

I've since been enlightened by another HDF member that the o2 sensors are very close in the collector of the header and that removing the cat could cause significant crosstalk if the stock headers are used. Now I'm rethinking everything.

Decisions, decisions.

Feb 16, 2010 | 08:49 PM

#37

hd110

Intermediate

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 47

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From: Lillian, Al.

I apolagize for the improper afr ratio, I simply converted the lambda values from one of steves calibrations. I should of known that steve increased the values. Jamie I'm sure you know that lamda is a little more than just a different representaion of the same thing. While the values can be converted there are some pretty large differnces Behind the scenes in the calibration. But in a sense they control the same outcome. I supose it is all in how you look at.

Mar 11, 2010 | 06:57 PM

#38

Dalton

Ultimate HDF Member

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 7,663

Likes: 7

From: Northeast Ohio

I am dredging up an old thread here, but wanted to make a couple of comments...

Quote:

Originally Posted by big block

You cant make me believe those are stock pistons with a factory tune.It must have had a tune a lil (or a lot)richer than stock with out upgraded pipes and air filter!My spark plugs are whiter now than they were when HD put them in there and I have 3000 miles on it.If that engine was running that rich then the check engine light should have been on all the time.And guzzled gas!
Big Block

This was a bone stock 2010 Ultra that no-one had touched since mariner227 picked it up from the dealer. Lots of carbon on the tops of the cyls and a little damp with oil. My take on this is it is running a bit richer, maybe not in the cruise area but around town, accel enrichment and the bike was getting less than 40mpg. I have no opinion on the slight oiling other than to say that it could have come in through the intake as the breathers were fed in the stock manner. That is now changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rthomp159

You know, now that I think about it, you may be on to something. My 2010 Limited gets around 38mpg. Doesn't ping at all, and actually runs pretty good. The built 103 in my Night Train gets around 42mpg, but it's in a 2-300 pound lighter bike. I'm thinking that the cat bikes are running a richer AFR thanks to the cats. There's no need to lean them out in order to meet the air quality standards.

That would also explain why D&D says you can change pipes and A/C on a 2010 bike without a tune.
Veeeeeeeeery interesting.

I am not sure if this is the case, but it makes a little sense. One thing I can say for sure is after I did the HQ107ST build, the bike ran great, fired right off and it will be tuned by Doc with a Mastertune so it will be right.

Mileage should be low to mid 40s or even more at highway speeds depending on fuel, elevation, load etc..