Misinformed on 103 Build and Cams....
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Eastern NC
To be running an oil cooler, coupled with the fact that it's only spring. I was thinking 235 is warmer than I would want my oil to be. Gotta wonder where it would go when summer arrives with the heat and humidity?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Depends on the oil, depends on the cooler. I'm of the opinion that an oil temperature gauge is just one more thing to stress about. Run a quality synthetic and stop worrying about your oil temperature. 235 is well within acceptable temperatures. Start worrying when it hits 290.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 832
Likes: 1
From: Bagram, Afghanistan
Depends on the oil, depends on the cooler. I'm of the opinion that an oil temperature gauge is just one more thing to stress about. Run a quality synthetic and stop worrying about your oil temperature. 235 is well within acceptable temperatures. Start worrying when it hits 290.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 832
Likes: 1
From: Bagram, Afghanistan
The cams I purchased on E-bay came in yesterday. When I got home I checked them out. They are in pristine condition and look to be very low miles, BUT they are definitely NOT SE-255 cams. I'm not sure what they are for sure, but they are press fit cams, not one piece. They look to be stock cams to me, but I could be wrong.
Be careful on e-bay.
Be careful on e-bay.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
I don't have my manual with me (didn't ride to work today), but I'm pretty sure that 200~240 degrees is the normal operating temperature for your bike. Butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate, but if you really are feeling a noticeable decrease in performance, you have an issue with your tune. Your bike should run like a top with 230 degree oil.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I don't have my manual with me (didn't ride to work today), but I'm pretty sure that 200~240 degrees is the normal operating temperature for your bike. Butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate, but if you really are feeling a noticeable decrease in performance, you have an issue with your tune. Your bike should run like a top with 230 degree oil.
What's more, the ECU will retard timing when a certain head temp is reached, and IMO if oil temps are 230° the head temps are high enough to trigger a change in ignition advance. I can definitely tell a difference when my bike's oil temp gets above about 210°, although the way this works with the '07 is different from later years. I think mine starts this process when the front head reaches 250-260°, which isn't that hot. Jamie at Fuel Moto could give more precise info on this, as I've discussed this with him in the past.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Not really. "Normal" by HD's definition and "optimal" aren't the same, and HD's spec of 230° for "normal oil temperature" refers to a stock bike. Tony's bike has a PCV with remapped AFR's and should be running cooler than he is, IMO.
What's more, the ECU will retard timing when a certain head temp is reached, and IMO if oil temps are 230° the head temps are high enough to trigger a change in ignition advance. I can definitely tell a difference when my bike's oil temp gets above about 210°, although the way this works with the '07 is different from later years. I think mine starts this process when the front head reaches 250-260°, which isn't that hot. Jamie at Fuel Moto could give more precise info on this, as I've discussed this with him in the past.
What's more, the ECU will retard timing when a certain head temp is reached, and IMO if oil temps are 230° the head temps are high enough to trigger a change in ignition advance. I can definitely tell a difference when my bike's oil temp gets above about 210°, although the way this works with the '07 is different from later years. I think mine starts this process when the front head reaches 250-260°, which isn't that hot. Jamie at Fuel Moto could give more precise info on this, as I've discussed this with him in the past.
Edited to add - I'm not slagging anyone here, I'm actually curious. I wouldn't think twice about the bike running at 235 degrees unless it had been running substantially cooler under the same conditions and then suddenly spiked up.
But I stand by my statement that there's no way that you should be pulling timing if you're only showing 235 degrees (or 210). Something sounds very wrong with that.
Last edited by '05Train; Apr 8, 2010 at 09:44 AM.
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 832
Likes: 1
From: Bagram, Afghanistan
The cams I purchased on E-bay came in yesterday. When I got home I checked them out. They are in pristine condition and look to be very low miles, BUT they are definitely NOT SE-255 cams. I'm not sure what they are for sure, but they are press fit cams, not one piece. They look to be stock cams to me, but I could be wrong.
Be careful on e-bay.
Be careful on e-bay.
For those of you that have PM'd me about the cams, once I check them out I'll put a price on them.
What is confusing is that the part number etchings on the cams he sent me start with 255. I can see where he may have made an honest mistake if he's not the one that did the swap. Guess we'll see when the other ones get here.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Jamie at Fuel Moto told me the '07's begin retarding the ignition very early, IIRC around 250° measured on the front head. I don't know the spec on the '09, but 250° isn't hard to reach in summer riding. Jamie has access to more details of the ECU than most of us, as well as much more experience working with them, and I have no reason to doubt his statement to me. This "feature" is obviously to control detonation at higher temperatures.
Edited to add - I'm not slagging anyone here, I'm actually curious. I wouldn't think twice about the bike running at 235 degrees unless it had been running substantially cooler under the same conditions and then suddenly spiked up.
I don't recall Tony saying whether his bike was in traffic when it hit 235° or not, but remember that he's running a Stage II, which because of increased displacement and compression should run hotter than a TC96 with 255 cams in the same environment. If he saw 235° after sitting in slow-moving traffic for 20 min. I would consider this normal, even for a bike with a cooler and AFR's adjusted for cooling.
But I stand by my statement that there's no way that you should be pulling timing if you're only showing 235 degrees (or 210). Something sounds very wrong with that.
Last edited by iclick; Apr 8, 2010 at 05:08 PM.