Am I Being A Douchebag?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 20
From: Salem, Or
Big difference in the world of motorcycle riding today compared to when you were 16. I'm 68 and I started the same way you did, but we didn't have the hazards then we have today. You can't tell me if you had a 15 yr old with no experience, no license or insurance, you would allow him on the highway for a 500 mile round trip? If I had a 15 yr old son that wanted to ride, I would insist he take the MSF course and have plenty of practice in parking lots and off road to build his confidence and experience in handling the bike. I would probably start him on something smaller than a sportster. I don't think a lot of the posters here really read the OP's statement. as I understood him to say, He found out the guy was bringing his 15 yr old son whom had no license or insurance. He told his buddy...not the parents, He was not riding! Am I right?
I don't disagree with everything that is being said and I wonder sometimes what the hell i'm doing on the road in Arizona but there are some area's of the country that aren't that bad. There is a family that lives across the street from me that has 2 boys that have been riding dirt bikes since they were four and they are now around the same age as the boy in question. I think they could handle a Sportster with no problems what so ever
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 128
This thread is all over the place, with responses ranging from logical and thoughtful to hysterical and overreaching.
I'm not interested in any internet p**ing match. I was responding to someone who suggested this was akin to contribuiting to the delinquincy of a minor, because it was essentially encouraging him to commit a crime.
My point was, and is, that a driving without a license and insurance is a traffic infraction, which is a civil offense and not a crime. And suggesting that the parents actions rises to "contributing to the delinquency" is ridiculous. Period. A traffic offense doesn't rise to the level of a crime simply because something might happen. Driving without a license isn't a crime, it's a traffic offense. And if you get stopped without a license, you're not going to be charged with a felony because something bad might happen.
All the what ifs and speculation about what might happen is beyond the scope of my comment, and I'm not interested in going down that rabbit hole.
You disagree. I get it.
I'm not interested in any internet p**ing match. I was responding to someone who suggested this was akin to contribuiting to the delinquincy of a minor, because it was essentially encouraging him to commit a crime.
My point was, and is, that a driving without a license and insurance is a traffic infraction, which is a civil offense and not a crime. And suggesting that the parents actions rises to "contributing to the delinquency" is ridiculous. Period. A traffic offense doesn't rise to the level of a crime simply because something might happen. Driving without a license isn't a crime, it's a traffic offense. And if you get stopped without a license, you're not going to be charged with a felony because something bad might happen.
All the what ifs and speculation about what might happen is beyond the scope of my comment, and I'm not interested in going down that rabbit hole.
You disagree. I get it.
"Child endangerment is a criminal offense that involves the subjection of minor children to inappropriate or dangerous situations. The purpose of child endangerment laws is to keep children from witnessing illegal activity, and to protect them from situations in which they might get hurt."
The what ifs and speculation of what might happen only accentuate what is/did happen. Not only did the kid break several laws, but the parents not only allowed it to happen, they were the instigators. You can not possibly argue that riding a motorcycle on a 500 mile trip without a license or insurance, and in his case, on a bike with more than double the allowable cc's permitted for a kid of his age is somehow not illegal or a situation where he can't get hurt. It is illegal and he could get hurt and the parents are guilty of child endangerment. Add to it that if they do get pulled over and cited, the kid won't be able to get his license till he's a lot older, they can kiss their insurance good bye, will only qualify for high risk, will get at least fined, maybe locked up, probably have to attend parenting classes, and probably will have their bikes confiscated. The kid might not face a felony, but the parents sure as heck care unless you consider something with a potential 20 year sentence a minor traffic violation.
I was responding to a post that someone else made that the parents actions were "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
That is was I was disagreeing with. I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about child endangerment or even whether or not is was a bad idea.
It's very simple, do you want to break the law or not? Suggest you look up:
"Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor" - Any action by an adult that allows or encourages illegal behavior by a person under the age of 18, or that places children in situations that expose them to illegal behavior.
We all like to bend the rules, but this one endangers more than just the kid's life. These parents are prime examples of why we have to make laws like this one.
"Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor" - Any action by an adult that allows or encourages illegal behavior by a person under the age of 18, or that places children in situations that expose them to illegal behavior.
We all like to bend the rules, but this one endangers more than just the kid's life. These parents are prime examples of why we have to make laws like this one.
C'mon. It may have been ill advised, but it certainly didn't rise to the level of "contributing to the deliquency". For crying out loud, a traffic violation is a civil offense, not a crime. No right to a jury trial, no "innocent until proven guilty" standard.
If the kids dad had encouraged him to steal the bike, then you might have had an argument.
If the kids dad had encouraged him to steal the bike, then you might have had an argument.
sarcastically: make sure you ride in the front of the formation, if he goes down, make sure its behind you.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 128
No. You don't get it.
I was responding to a post that someone else made that the parents actions were "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
That is was I was disagreeing with. I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about child endangerment or even whether or not is was a bad idea.
I was responding to a post that someone else made that the parents actions were "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
That is was I was disagreeing with. I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about child endangerment or even whether or not is was a bad idea.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Way too deep guys,...... Hello?
Dude just asked if he was being a dick, for declining to "go with".
It's none of his, nor our business how this dude raises his child. He's likely real good on two wheels or the dad wouldn't consider taking him. Not our call to make. We never met him or the kid. We can not evaluate them based on this minimal information we have. We have no right to, anyway.
We can only "make up ****" so's we can argue non factual statements.
It's all moot. The guy would be wise to not accompany this family, and every single poster on this thread AGREED with that.
So why the debate???????
Again, think about the parents that don't give time to their children, and let the children find "family" with gangs,...... and shoot up our streets.
Dude just asked if he was being a dick, for declining to "go with".
It's none of his, nor our business how this dude raises his child. He's likely real good on two wheels or the dad wouldn't consider taking him. Not our call to make. We never met him or the kid. We can not evaluate them based on this minimal information we have. We have no right to, anyway.
We can only "make up ****" so's we can argue non factual statements.
It's all moot. The guy would be wise to not accompany this family, and every single poster on this thread AGREED with that.
So why the debate???????
Again, think about the parents that don't give time to their children, and let the children find "family" with gangs,...... and shoot up our streets.
Oh, I get it alright. Your the one that doesn't seem to get it. You don't have to encourage the kid to commit a felony or something to be guilty of child endangerment or abuse. Let me give you another example. Is it a felony to be drunk? Buy a 15 year old a 6 pack or a fifth and see what they charge you with if he gets caught with it.
My comment was in response to the suggestion that allowing the kid to drive without a license was "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". I'm not getting into a internet pi**ing match about whether or not this rises to the level of child endangerment.
I'm not advocating for or against the parents or whether or not this was a good idea.
Whatever this was, it wasn't "contributing to the delinquency of a minor."
Last edited by Mike; Sep 9, 2010 at 05:04 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
It is my business if someone without license and insurance is on the road with my family and I.
No operators license is a an offense that can receive jail time. Driving knowingly without insurance is equally bad.
No operators license is a an offense that can receive jail time. Driving knowingly without insurance is equally bad.
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Actually, many states have them. You already ARE surrounded by non licensed non insured drivers.
Guess what? None of those unlicensed, uninsured illegals have a watchdog critiquing there every move while teaching them proper riding technique.
They are not accompanied by a teacher with hawkeye vigilance of them.
I know, I know, better off turning your kids loose with the street gangs.
They know all about child raising.
No operators license is a an offense that can receive jail time.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 20
From: Salem, Or
Come to Arizona. The road is full of people that don't have a license or if they do it's fake...