"lugging"
Road Captain
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 646
Likes: 435
From: S.I.N.Y.
Lugging means it struggles to accelerate, whatever gear you happen to be in. If you dial on the throttle and the bike hesitates you are lugging it. Usually something above 2,000 rpm will be in the power range. It really is not about rpms so much as too tall a gear for the motor to easily accelerate. The HD V-Twin is a low rpm motor but the selected gear has to be appropriate to the speed of the bike. Too high a gear at too low a speed is where I see lugging as a problem. ymmv
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Atlantic Canada
So you mean on the highway at 60 mph you`re in 4th out of 6 gears? At 60 mph my EG`s at about 2100-2150 rpm in 6th, 2500 rpm in 5th, so to be 2800-3500 rpm I`d have to be in 4th....you must be talking your rpm`s while accelerating, and not cruisting at a steady speed on a flat road.
That said, a friend of mine forwarded me the link to this thread because the dealership owner/mechanic said my piston broke and scratched my piston at only 29,000 km due to pre-ignition caused by lugging, specifically running 6th gear at 60 mph when I should have been in 5th. It`ll probably cost me $2000 on a 2008 that`s been babied....which apparently is the problem according to him.
I had pinging despite being on premium, but in the middle of a 20,000 km trip I assumed it was normal if mild which I though it was (tinkling sound sometimes so I`d back off), and since its stone stock I didn`t think the timing or fuel map would have been changed by the previous owner who actually bought it off the dealer I have it at now, who owned it himself the first year and both guys are mature, experienced riders who would not have abused it. The implication is it pinged due to lugging.
Anyone else have an engine failure attributed to running 2100 rpm while cruising (and had pinging issues on a stock bike)? My concern is that after fixing this for a lot of money, it`ll start pinging again and I`ll be forced to just sell the thing and buy a BMW.....which I know is blasphemous on this site, but what would you do if riding it in 5th on premium still pings, and that very pinging destroyed half your engine the last time? I could have no peace or relaxation while on vacation with an engine like that. And it`s unfortunate because other than the pinging, 1.5 L oil burning per oil change, and the engine failure I had loved the bike.
That said, a friend of mine forwarded me the link to this thread because the dealership owner/mechanic said my piston broke and scratched my piston at only 29,000 km due to pre-ignition caused by lugging, specifically running 6th gear at 60 mph when I should have been in 5th. It`ll probably cost me $2000 on a 2008 that`s been babied....which apparently is the problem according to him.
I had pinging despite being on premium, but in the middle of a 20,000 km trip I assumed it was normal if mild which I though it was (tinkling sound sometimes so I`d back off), and since its stone stock I didn`t think the timing or fuel map would have been changed by the previous owner who actually bought it off the dealer I have it at now, who owned it himself the first year and both guys are mature, experienced riders who would not have abused it. The implication is it pinged due to lugging.
Anyone else have an engine failure attributed to running 2100 rpm while cruising (and had pinging issues on a stock bike)? My concern is that after fixing this for a lot of money, it`ll start pinging again and I`ll be forced to just sell the thing and buy a BMW.....which I know is blasphemous on this site, but what would you do if riding it in 5th on premium still pings, and that very pinging destroyed half your engine the last time? I could have no peace or relaxation while on vacation with an engine like that. And it`s unfortunate because other than the pinging, 1.5 L oil burning per oil change, and the engine failure I had loved the bike.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Atlantic Canada
Hey gasman ---- I have an 09 EG Classic also. 1st Harley for me. I'm solo about 99% of the time & if I can stay over 2000, I've used 6th alot. BUT, look at the tach when you're doing 70 to 75. It'll be at least 2500 in 6th anyway, so I went back to using 5th until I get up to 65 or 70.
Last edited by LastHalf; Jul 16, 2011 at 09:16 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Atlantic Canada
Can lugging cause pre-ignition or detonation (the former being mixture ignited BEFORE spark, and the latter AFTER spark but the mechanic says pre-ignition)? I used premium. I also heard pinging though when in 5th so that didn`t seem to make a difference which is making me think I`ll just have to sell it.
Last edited by LastHalf; Jul 16, 2011 at 09:16 AM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 600
From: SoCal.....I'm only here for the weather
I find with the 6 speed (at least on my Ultra), the engine feedback is much more subtle and I have to pay a bit more attention to the tach. or I will find myself overgeared. On my TC88 with the 5 speed (Dyna) I can feel the engine constantly and never even look at my tach anymore. Having said that, I don't use 6th under 70 mph and I ALWAYS downshift before rolling on the throttle in 6th regardless of my speed. I just don't think 6th is for anything but steady cruising above 70 mph.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
So you mean on the highway at 60 mph you`re in 4th out of 6 gears? At 60 mph my EG`s at about 2100-2150 rpm in 6th, 2500 rpm in 5th, so to be 2800-3500 rpm I`d have to be in 4th....you must be talking your rpm`s while accelerating, and not cruisting at a steady speed on a flat road.
That said, a friend of mine forwarded me the link to this thread because the dealership owner/mechanic said my piston broke and scratched my piston at only 29,000 km due to pre-ignition caused by lugging, specifically running 6th gear at 60 mph when I should have been in 5th. It`ll probably cost me $2000 on a 2008 that`s been babied....which apparently is the problem according to him.
I had pinging despite being on premium, but in the middle of a 20,000 km trip I assumed it was normal if mild which I though it was (tinkling sound sometimes so I`d back off), and since its stone stock I didn`t think the timing or fuel map would have been changed by the previous owner who actually bought it off the dealer I have it at now, who owned it himself the first year and both guys are mature, experienced riders who would not have abused it. The implication is it pinged due to lugging.
Anyone else have an engine failure attributed to running 2100 rpm while cruising (and had pinging issues on a stock bike)? My concern is that after fixing this for a lot of money, it`ll start pinging again and I`ll be forced to just sell the thing and buy a BMW.....which I know is blasphemous on this site, but what would you do if riding it in 5th on premium still pings, and that very pinging destroyed half your engine the last time? I could have no peace or relaxation while on vacation with an engine like that. And it`s unfortunate because other than the pinging, 1.5 L oil burning per oil change, and the engine failure I had loved the bike.
That said, a friend of mine forwarded me the link to this thread because the dealership owner/mechanic said my piston broke and scratched my piston at only 29,000 km due to pre-ignition caused by lugging, specifically running 6th gear at 60 mph when I should have been in 5th. It`ll probably cost me $2000 on a 2008 that`s been babied....which apparently is the problem according to him.
I had pinging despite being on premium, but in the middle of a 20,000 km trip I assumed it was normal if mild which I though it was (tinkling sound sometimes so I`d back off), and since its stone stock I didn`t think the timing or fuel map would have been changed by the previous owner who actually bought it off the dealer I have it at now, who owned it himself the first year and both guys are mature, experienced riders who would not have abused it. The implication is it pinged due to lugging.
Anyone else have an engine failure attributed to running 2100 rpm while cruising (and had pinging issues on a stock bike)? My concern is that after fixing this for a lot of money, it`ll start pinging again and I`ll be forced to just sell the thing and buy a BMW.....which I know is blasphemous on this site, but what would you do if riding it in 5th on premium still pings, and that very pinging destroyed half your engine the last time? I could have no peace or relaxation while on vacation with an engine like that. And it`s unfortunate because other than the pinging, 1.5 L oil burning per oil change, and the engine failure I had loved the bike.
BMW's are ugly sonofabitch'es BTW. I'd rather drive the car than ride one.
~Joe
Supporter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,189
Likes: 16
From: N.E. Wisconsin
Lugging means it struggles to accelerate, whatever gear you happen to be in. If you dial on the throttle and the bike hesitates you are lugging it. Usually something above 2,000 rpm will be in the power range. It really is not about rpms so much as too tall a gear for the motor to easily accelerate. The HD V-Twin is a low rpm motor but the selected gear has to be appropriate to the speed of the bike. Too high a gear at too low a speed is where I see lugging as a problem. ymmv
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Atlantic Canada
Thanks (and yes if I could have faith it`ll not blow up again I wouldn`t even be thinking of selling the Harley, but my confidence is badly shaken given the extent of the damage for simply running it 2100-2200 rpm for a long 20,000 km trip). I was riding 1 up loaded and above 2000 rpm, 2100-2200 rpm in fact, but maybe should`ve been over 2500 rpm since loaded....because the piston busted on the side and on the top near that side which gouged the cylinder. I hope the bottom end is okay with any metal that got pulverized down there during my troubleshooting/idling/revving and short trip to get it to the dealer before I knew the piston was broken.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 505
Likes: 2
LastHalf - it's a common misconception that Harleys like to run around at 2000 rpm and similar. They CAN do it but they don't like it and it's not good for the engine. I think the ping you had would be likely due to trying to open the throttle from too low revs when heavily loaded. As I said in response to the thread you started you need to use 2500 as your minimum rpm. If you drop below that then change down, I know it means you wont use 6th as often and that may not make sense to you but it will be better for the engine and wallet. If the ping persists using 2500 rpm and above fit a Power Commander and get a good tuner to tune the ping out.