The MoCo
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
It's the economy stupid!!!!
HD can only close a dealer if they buy them out. The dealers are closing because 4 years ago HD sells exceeded 440,000 bikes. 2010 closed with about 210,000 bikes.
So there are too many dealers chasing to few sales. How many car dealers closed in the same area?
A slow economy always wipes out the marginal dealers of any product.
It's called life. Now get on with it. Stop whining and start shining.
HD can only close a dealer if they buy them out. The dealers are closing because 4 years ago HD sells exceeded 440,000 bikes. 2010 closed with about 210,000 bikes.
So there are too many dealers chasing to few sales. How many car dealers closed in the same area?
A slow economy always wipes out the marginal dealers of any product.
It's called life. Now get on with it. Stop whining and start shining.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,783
Likes: 10
From: Oh
Club? I don't need no stinkin' club to ride! I have some of the same friends I have been riding with for over 47 years. I ride HD because that's the scoot I like and have had 15 in my years of riding. Yes, I have gotten the HOG patches and memberships with every bike purchase since they started the club but, it's the bike, not the club that keeps me on a Harley. Like has been said, "it's a business" and like most they only care about the bottom line, $$$$. And you should only care about your bike, not the politics of the company that made it. Lastly, if you have people you ride with and you consider them friends, great! They can still be your friends and you can ride together. You don't need a motorcycle company club to keep your friends or do you? JMO
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 69
From: Al Bu Ker Key, New Mexico
BMCGC, I am not attacking you, I just want to know what facts you are basing your comments on and your source for those statements. There is enough MoCo bashing on this forum now and statements like yours continue to feed the fire. I am not the one making these statements and not the one talking out their ***. I could care less about how long you have had a m/c endorsement or how many motorcycles you have owned. It sounds to me like YOU are the one attacking the MoCo. If you are unhappy with the MoCo sell your Harleys and go buy a metric and quit spreading this bullshit on this forum. Put up or shut up.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Northern VT
I couldn't agree more with some of the things said here and disagree with some of the others. I bought the Harley because I wanted to ride the bike...not belong to a "Family". I belonged to the HOG org because it was paid for upfront...now that its expired I belong to my own HOG chapter called "Me". Why should I turn over money to belong to a "Family"...last I knew my family didn't charge me for that. I think you get what you pay for in this country. Belonging to a chapter isn't what it use to be 30 years ago. Its just a lot of show IMO. I went to 2 local meetings and felt it turned into a dealer presentation. I could go to the dealer if I wanted that. I'm not saying people shouldn't belong..if that's your thing go for it and I'll be happy for you. Back to the original comment about the NJ rally....consider yourself served...lesson learned. You obviously won't make that mistake again right. It sounds like you got a great bunch of people, use that to your advantage and keep the riding going. You can schedule your own events and rides..you don't need someone to do that for you. People's driveways and back yards make great meeting locations...and it doesn't cost you money.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 817
Since you dont know me or anything about me, your talking out your *** when you attack me.
I currently own an FLHT, my wife owns and rides a FXDF.
Ive had a MC endorsement since 1974.
Ive owned @ 30 MC's so far.
If you dont like my data, do some research and prove me wrong.
How about you?
I currently own an FLHT, my wife owns and rides a FXDF.
Ive had a MC endorsement since 1974.
Ive owned @ 30 MC's so far.
If you dont like my data, do some research and prove me wrong.
How about you?
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,788
Likes: 2,222
From: Texas
I'm a member but have never asked for or gotten anything from them but a patch, pin and a road atlas with Harley dealers listed when I renew. I've been to a couple of rallys in the past and they pretty much sucked. I'm not much on clubs but I DO like the garage decorations they provide.
Best post of the thread!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
Am I out of line with my thinking here? Maybe. You can't tell me that a lot of good dealerships who've reached out and treated customers like family haven't gone under. I pray that Iron Steed stays healthy as a business and this feeling has nothing to do with Harley Davidson Inc. or HOG. It has to do with customer loyalty on the microscale (microeconomics), but loyalty works both ways, and from what I'm reading in these posts, on the large scale Harley's slippin' on the loyalty front. Am I hitting the nail squarely on the head with my commentary about Harley in general?
I don't know. I'm just a customer.
I don't know. I'm just a customer.
I bought a motorcycle to ride.
The "club", the "family". Its a business, plain and simple, when the money stops, they have no use for the "club members" or the "family members".
Screw the "club" screw the "family", just ride and enjoy your bikes.
HD may not be around in a few years, if they are they arent going to look anything like they do today.
Tomorrow Im going to post a thread on my take of motorcycles, the ecomony, and why HD is heading for ch 13.
The "club", the "family". Its a business, plain and simple, when the money stops, they have no use for the "club members" or the "family members".
Screw the "club" screw the "family", just ride and enjoy your bikes.
HD may not be around in a few years, if they are they arent going to look anything like they do today.
Tomorrow Im going to post a thread on my take of motorcycles, the ecomony, and why HD is heading for ch 13.
Interesting - Very Interesting.......
If this issue is in regards to how poorly the national and international HOG organizations are being administered than I agree entirely; if it's about failing STEALERSHIPS then I say - You brought it on yourself with poor quality, terrible engineering and overpriced product; in other words GREED!
All one has to do is READ the publications that are published by the "national HOG" organizations. I have NEVER read such gribbish; like what's published in these magazines, anywhere else. Anybody read the article about how to prepare for meeting "game" on the road - absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!
At one HOG event; we had a NATIONAL Director FLY in, TAXI to the event, participate (eat) the evening meal, tell everyone how GREAT HOG is and then admit to the attendess she had never ridden a motorcycle and that this was her 1st time attending such an event, left by taxi, stayed at a 5 star hotel and flew out the next morning.
This is the NEW HOG leadership.
And with this type of leadership and direction; "You expect what to happen?"
ONLY when you as a HOG member DEMAND a stop to this type of nonsense will HOG become better.
It up to us to change it......
Ride In Peace
If this issue is in regards to how poorly the national and international HOG organizations are being administered than I agree entirely; if it's about failing STEALERSHIPS then I say - You brought it on yourself with poor quality, terrible engineering and overpriced product; in other words GREED!
All one has to do is READ the publications that are published by the "national HOG" organizations. I have NEVER read such gribbish; like what's published in these magazines, anywhere else. Anybody read the article about how to prepare for meeting "game" on the road - absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!
At one HOG event; we had a NATIONAL Director FLY in, TAXI to the event, participate (eat) the evening meal, tell everyone how GREAT HOG is and then admit to the attendess she had never ridden a motorcycle and that this was her 1st time attending such an event, left by taxi, stayed at a 5 star hotel and flew out the next morning.
This is the NEW HOG leadership.
And with this type of leadership and direction; "You expect what to happen?"
ONLY when you as a HOG member DEMAND a stop to this type of nonsense will HOG become better.
It up to us to change it......
Ride In Peace
] ....Well, first off if you read my whole post, I did not write the letter and I did not attend the rally.
What I was trying to convey was that HD really does not care about its customers anymore. They say join the family but what a dysfunctional family it has become.
Hey, that's what this place is all about, people giving their opinions, suggestions and ideas.
I knew when I posted that I would get some of the comments I did but my main objective was getting it on the forum where we all know that HD employees read our postings. They have to, we take it upon ourselves to mod our bikes one way or the other, post it on here and the next season, HD comes out with the same modification from the factory.
carry on....
What I was trying to convey was that HD really does not care about its customers anymore. They say join the family but what a dysfunctional family it has become.
Hey, that's what this place is all about, people giving their opinions, suggestions and ideas.
I knew when I posted that I would get some of the comments I did but my main objective was getting it on the forum where we all know that HD employees read our postings. They have to, we take it upon ourselves to mod our bikes one way or the other, post it on here and the next season, HD comes out with the same modification from the factory.
carry on....
I doubt the future is quite that dark.
How many guys do you know who own big boats? Boats that cost more than Harleys? It's a bad economy, sure, and lots of people are hurting, and sales could logically be expected to have suffered big declines. But sales of big boats are still being made.
Plus, as outlined in this and other similar threads, lots of dealers over-extended and upgraded during 2003-2007, and that might now seem to have been such a good idea now.
But if there are any segments of our economy where life is going better than average, it is in the areas where people with lots of disposable income continue to spend.
Boat sales have slowed down, but plenty of people nationwide are doing quite well thanks very much, and expensive boats continue to be sold.
Harley will be around for quite awhile. It might have to adjust to lower sales numbers for a few years, or re-tool, relocate, etc., but there is a pretty good market for Harleys and there will be into the future so long as the MoCo continues to manufacture motorcycles that people want to ride.
There will always be a segment of the market that can afford $25K-$35K+ motorcycles, and I suspect that thats the market segment that the MoCo will aim for in the future. Its far more 'recession-proof'.
YMMV.
How many guys do you know who own big boats? Boats that cost more than Harleys? It's a bad economy, sure, and lots of people are hurting, and sales could logically be expected to have suffered big declines. But sales of big boats are still being made.
Plus, as outlined in this and other similar threads, lots of dealers over-extended and upgraded during 2003-2007, and that might now seem to have been such a good idea now.
But if there are any segments of our economy where life is going better than average, it is in the areas where people with lots of disposable income continue to spend.
Boat sales have slowed down, but plenty of people nationwide are doing quite well thanks very much, and expensive boats continue to be sold.
Harley will be around for quite awhile. It might have to adjust to lower sales numbers for a few years, or re-tool, relocate, etc., but there is a pretty good market for Harleys and there will be into the future so long as the MoCo continues to manufacture motorcycles that people want to ride.
There will always be a segment of the market that can afford $25K-$35K+ motorcycles, and I suspect that thats the market segment that the MoCo will aim for in the future. Its far more 'recession-proof'.
YMMV.
I couldn't agree more with some of the things said here and disagree with some of the others. I bought the Harley because I wanted to ride the bike...not belong to a "Family". I belonged to the HOG org because it was paid for upfront...now that its expired I belong to my own HOG chapter called "Me". Why should I turn over money to belong to a "Family"...last I knew my family didn't charge me for that. I think you get what you pay for in this country. Belonging to a chapter isn't what it use to be 30 years ago. Its just a lot of show IMO. I went to 2 local meetings and felt it turned into a dealer presentation. I could go to the dealer if I wanted that. I'm not saying people shouldn't belong..if that's your thing go for it and I'll be happy for you. Back to the original comment about the NJ rally....consider yourself served...lesson learned. You obviously won't make that mistake again right. It sounds like you got a great bunch of people, use that to your advantage and keep the riding going. You can schedule your own events and rides..you don't need someone to do that for you. People's driveways and back yards make great meeting locations...and it doesn't cost you money.
* * *
No offense to the OP, but in retrospect, this whole thread seemed kind of worthless ... can't believe I am even posting ....
Harley Davidson is a business ... if people don't (or can't because of tough economic times) spend money on their product, they've got to ADJUST their business model and control costs ....
In my opinion it shows poor judgment to not take even some token measure to acknowledge concerns and issues facing their current product consumers ... yeah, they've made mistakes like many businesses ....
Although I am an enthusiast and a follower of the company's history and support (for the most part) their product line ... I try to 'curb my enthusiasm' and keep my perspective .... I've never bought in to the 'family' line of bull ... although I do generally enjoy associating with other HD owners and enthusiasts when the opportunities present themselves ....
Good luck to the OP keeping your riding group together ... and more importantly hope your friends and loved ones can 'keep their heads above water' until the economy (job market) improves ....
R/
'Chop
Intermediate
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park, Fl
It's the economy stupid!!!!
HD can only close a dealer if they buy them out. The dealers are closing because 4 years ago HD sells exceeded 440,000 bikes. 2010 closed with about 210,000 bikes.
So there are too many dealers chasing to few sales. How many car dealers closed in the same area?
A slow economy always wipes out the marginal dealers of any product.
It's called life. Now get on with it. Stop whining and start shining.
HD can only close a dealer if they buy them out. The dealers are closing because 4 years ago HD sells exceeded 440,000 bikes. 2010 closed with about 210,000 bikes.
So there are too many dealers chasing to few sales. How many car dealers closed in the same area?
A slow economy always wipes out the marginal dealers of any product.
It's called life. Now get on with it. Stop whining and start shining.
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 666
Likes: 5
From: Bay Area, CA
I couldn't agree more with some of the things said here and disagree with some of the others. I bought the Harley because I wanted to ride the bike...not belong to a "Family". I belonged to the HOG org because it was paid for upfront...now that its expired I belong to my own HOG chapter called "Me". Why should I turn over money to belong to a "Family"...last I knew my family didn't charge me for that. I think you get what you pay for in this country. Belonging to a chapter isn't what it use to be 30 years ago. Its just a lot of show IMO. I went to 2 local meetings and felt it turned into a dealer presentation. I could go to the dealer if I wanted that. I'm not saying people shouldn't belong..if that's your thing go for it and I'll be happy for you. Back to the original comment about the NJ rally....consider yourself served...lesson learned. You obviously won't make that mistake again right. It sounds like you got a great bunch of people, use that to your advantage and keep the riding going. You can schedule your own events and rides..you don't need someone to do that for you. People's driveways and back yards make great meeting locations...and it doesn't cost you money.
That said, Harley would be remiss to ignore or disappoint HOG folks even if it's not my kind of thing.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 666
Likes: 5
From: Bay Area, CA
I'm glad I have the 09 RK I have now and hope to God that years from now Harley HQ is not in China even if the parts are.
I can see myself pulling the trigger on future Harleys (maybe a CVO even) up until the point the MoCo sells out entirely to a Chinese/Indian/whatever business concern. At that point it's no longer an American legend, and it's game over for me. Man, I hope that never happens.