ABS Concerns
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 2
From: Hampstead, MD
No doubt ABS has it's advantages... but straight line braking I can stop in way less distance and in complete control with non-ABS. A buddy and I were out doing some parking lot practice, RLAP style, (never get enough) and decided to do some braking contests riding side by side (my '07 SG against his '10 SG) at the same speed and braking point. Time and time again, I beat him on my bike??? We're both pretty much exactly skilled, so switched bikes and STILL, MY bike won. Granted, this was in a parking lot with dry flat pavement but we were both pretty surprised. After this "test", he wasn't so sure he liked the ABS. I HAVE watched him on one occasion have to E-stop in the rain to avoid a cage and I gotta say I was extremely impressed with how well it did. For what he did, a non-ABS bike would have SURELY gone down.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
No doubt ABS has it's advantages... but straight line braking I can stop in way less distance and in complete control with non-ABS. A buddy and I were out doing some parking lot practice, RLAP style, (never get enough) and decided to do some braking contests riding side by side (my '07 SG against his '10 SG) at the same speed and braking point. Time and time again, I beat him on my bike??? We're both pretty much exactly skilled, so switched bikes and STILL, MY bike won. Granted, this was in a parking lot with dry flat pavement but we were both pretty surprised. After this "test", he wasn't so sure he liked the ABS. I HAVE watched him on one occasion have to E-stop in the rain to avoid a cage and I gotta say I was extremely impressed with how well it did. For what he did, a non-ABS bike would have SURELY gone down.
regardless, either way, your last sentence says it all....
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 171
From: Simi Valley, CA
if he was not engaging the abs in your scientific study, then there is no reason for the non abs bike to stop any quicker than the abs, (or vice versa), unless, there is some non-constant that exists between the 2. now, if he were locking up his brakes and the abs was kicking in, and you were not, then yes, your bike would definitely stop quicker.
regardless, either way, your last sentence says it all....
regardless, either way, your last sentence says it all....
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 2
From: Hampstead, MD
He was mashing his brakes, kicking in the ABS, and I was applying front and rear correctly so as to not lose traction. Then we switched doing the same on each other's bikes to feel the difference, we had fun with our little "experiment"... Let it be known, I would MUCH rather have the ABS upgrade over mine ANY day for normal, day to day circumstances. Just thought it was something interesting to bring up.
Here we are on that same day just messin' around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VGsv2JfXI
Here we are on that same day just messin' around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VGsv2JfXI
Road Captain
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 505
Likes: 2
Everyone has a view and does what works best for them, Here's my view and what works for me:
1. Front brake is the only truly effective brake. I use the rear for 25/40% of my stopping depending on the bike (I find the bagger copes with a touch more rear than any other bike I've ridden in my 33 years road experience). Front brake goes on first and progressively and I bring the rear brake in once all the weight transfer stuff has settled down. Rear brake is mostly used by me for coming to a halt situations or where you want to steady the bike into the early part of a curve or in a panic situation where everything gets used. More rear brake in the wet too - but never more than the front. Total rear brake on gravel, sand or grass
2. I ride with 2 fingers over the brake and clutch at all times (covering the clutch like this you used to have to do if you caned those old 2 strokes or they'd spit you off when they seized)
3. I have found that a correctly maintained front brake will allow you to howl the front tyre just to the point of locking up just using 2 fingers so I don't need more fingers (except on the old "banana" calipers where 15 fingers still wouldn't be enough) - this includes the 2-disc pre-brembo set up on my '99 FXDX. When I first got the FXDX I blew the entry into a corner (50mph) so badly that I hit all the brakes and locked front and back simultaneously - stayed on the bike and the road (just needed new underwear) - so 2 fingers does work
4. I set the front brake up so that it cannot come back to the bars no matter how hard you pull it - I don't want to pull the lever in a couple of inches before it starts to work. This means I don't have to think about trapping my fingers - I'd hate to ride a bike with such a "loose/slow" front brake
5. Most important thing with braking is to allow enough room and time, without that no amount of technique and set up will help.
1. Front brake is the only truly effective brake. I use the rear for 25/40% of my stopping depending on the bike (I find the bagger copes with a touch more rear than any other bike I've ridden in my 33 years road experience). Front brake goes on first and progressively and I bring the rear brake in once all the weight transfer stuff has settled down. Rear brake is mostly used by me for coming to a halt situations or where you want to steady the bike into the early part of a curve or in a panic situation where everything gets used. More rear brake in the wet too - but never more than the front. Total rear brake on gravel, sand or grass
2. I ride with 2 fingers over the brake and clutch at all times (covering the clutch like this you used to have to do if you caned those old 2 strokes or they'd spit you off when they seized)
3. I have found that a correctly maintained front brake will allow you to howl the front tyre just to the point of locking up just using 2 fingers so I don't need more fingers (except on the old "banana" calipers where 15 fingers still wouldn't be enough) - this includes the 2-disc pre-brembo set up on my '99 FXDX. When I first got the FXDX I blew the entry into a corner (50mph) so badly that I hit all the brakes and locked front and back simultaneously - stayed on the bike and the road (just needed new underwear) - so 2 fingers does work
4. I set the front brake up so that it cannot come back to the bars no matter how hard you pull it - I don't want to pull the lever in a couple of inches before it starts to work. This means I don't have to think about trapping my fingers - I'd hate to ride a bike with such a "loose/slow" front brake
5. Most important thing with braking is to allow enough room and time, without that no amount of technique and set up will help.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 171
From: Simi Valley, CA
And I'll pay particular attention to and see if 2 or 4 fingers feels better when she grabs my lever LOL.
Last edited by 2black1s; Jan 8, 2011 at 01:46 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
thats why right there. in order to make it a true apples to apples comparison, while he was kicking in his abs, you should be applying your brakes hard enough to skid.
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Road Master
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 2
From: Hampstead, MD
I agree, guess we just thought his ABS would produce a shorter stopping distance We were somewhat surprised and thought it was just each of our styles of braking which is why we decided to switch bikes. He was a little bummed about the ABS until we talked about it and why ABS is so important in certain conditions. I'll definitely have it on my next bike. Till then, I'm always practicing for those times I really need the skills. Then again, even AFTER I have ABS... I wonder what percentage of riders practice on a regular basis. Bet it's pretty low. I've been riding for over 20 years and still get some quick practice in every 3 rides or so and make it a point to do at least 2 full-on course days every year setting up cones and what not with some buddies. The day you think ya got it all figured out is when you need to put the bike away.
I just spoke with my Dealer (Hoosier Harley-Davidson) - my warranty is up end of Feb - BUT due to the nature of where I live, I really can't ride during the winter months - so the service tech mngr stated that they extend those warranties till April 1st, to give us time to "ride" our bikes in for any warranty work. So if you have not done this ABS service bulletin M1251 update/upgrade and you live in an area where you can't ride because of the weather - make sure to call your dealer and ask them if they will allow you an extension to honor this service bulletin. Mine stated worst case that they would just back date the repair to make sure it would be covered - in case the month of March does not cooperate either.
HTH
HTH