Power Commander V and ECU or ECM Question

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Mar 17, 2011 | 08:31 AM

MrHog

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From: Central Ohio

Power Commander V and ECU or ECM Question

Does anyone know if the Power Commander and other fuel management units over ride the ECU or some call it the ECM on the bikes? I read that some folks say it does, so if you have a flash on you ECU like stage 1 or 2, it doesn't matter because the Power Commander will over ride it. I do not have a flash on my bike, but do have the PCV.

I was looking at the maps on the Power Commander website and you can choose a set up with stock ECU, Stage 1 or Stage 2. Different set ups under each stage. If the PC over rides the ECU, I could choose any map regardless of what stage it is under. I was limited and never could find a map that was close to my setup under the stock stage choices, but would use a map that was in the ball park. I would like to try a map under the stage 2 section after my motor work is completed. I will give it a try, but wonder if I am wasting my time or it will not run right because it is under stage 2 and I dont have that flash.

Last edited by MrHog; Mar 17, 2011 at 08:33 AM.

Mar 17, 2011 | 10:25 AM

iclick

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Joined: Sep 2005

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHog

Quote:

I was looking at the maps on the Power Commander website and you can choose a set up with stock ECU, Stage 1 or Stage 2. Different set ups under each stage. If the PC over rides the ECU, I could choose any map regardless of what stage it is under.

No, it needs to match to your ECM state. As an example of how the PC works, let's say the ECM is dictating 50 units of fuel at a specific point in the throttle-position/RPM relationship (e.g. 2500 rpm @ 15% TP), and the PC has a value of 10 in that position. That means it is adding 10% more fuel to the value given by the ECM, so the ECM tune needs to be matched to your bike from the outset. The PC map for a Stage I might be +10 in that position for a Stage 1 map but +20 for a Stage II, for example. The second will provide 10% more fuel than the first, as the PC is expecting a certain value to be given by the ECM. It doesn't know what that is and only adds or subtracts fuel or spark advance.

Quote:

I was limited and never could find a map that was close to my setup under the stock stage choices, but would use a map that was in the ball park. I would like to try a map under the stage 2 section after my motor work is completed. I will give it a try, but wonder if I am wasting my time or it will not run right because it is under stage 2 and I dont have that flash.

Unless you purchased from a dealer who maintains a large database of maps, like Fuel Moto, your only option may be to get a dyno-tune if an exact match isn't found in the PC map library. You could try different maps and decide which runs the best, but you won't be getting an optimal tune that way.

Mar 17, 2011 | 02:30 PM

MrHog

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From: Central Ohio

Quote:

Originally Posted by iclick

The PC works downstream of the ECM and does what you describe, which is to override the signal output from from ECM for fuel and spark. However, it is not an absolute value but is adding or subtracting from the signals output from the ECM. If you use a canned map from DJ or other supplier it must be matched to the ECM tune, usually either stock or some HD "download" (Stage I, II, etc.).

No, it needs to match to your ECM state. As an example of how the PC works, let's say the ECM is dictating 50 units of fuel at a specific point in the throttle-position/RPM relationship (e.g. 2500 rpm @ 15% TP), and the PC has a value of 10 in that position. That means it is adding 10% more fuel to the value given by the ECM, so the ECM tune needs to be matched to your bike from the outset. The PC map for a Stage I might be +10 in that position for a Stage 1 map but +20 for a Stage II, for example. The second will provide 10% more fuel than the first, as the PC is expecting a certain value to be given by the ECM. It doesn't know what that is and only adds or subtracts fuel or spark advance.

Unless you purchased from a dealer who maintains a large database of maps, like Fuel Moto, your only option may be to get a dyno-tune if an exact match isn't found in the PC map library. You could try different maps and decide which runs the best, but you won't be getting an optimal tune that way.

Iclick, thank you very much for all the thorough information. Really helps put this thing into perspective. I did purchase my PCV from Fuelmoto, but have had little luck getting a map from them. I sent them an email asking for a map if they so kindly had one for a setup with what I have in my signature on here. Didn't get a reponse. I tried again after I got the CFR slip ons and told them my entire set up with the CFRs (make, model, year, motor, add ons, etc), but no response. I think they do not have a map for every single setup out there....would be impossible.

Now, I am adding a cam so things are going to change again. Best thing to do is get a dyno test, but I am always cahnging my set up and trying different slip ons. I think what I am going to do is put on a set of 07-08 tru duals with the o2 bungs and add the PC Auto Tune to my PCV. Hopefully will get the tune where it needs to be no matter what I run or do to the motor.

Mar 17, 2011 | 03:13 PM

Rickr01

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From: Vermont

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHog

Hmmm, I ordered a PCV from Fuel Moto and they preprogrammed mine based on my bike and add ons before it was sent to me. They have a reputation for support. Whenever I have ever called or emailed prior to and now after the sale, they have been there to help. Have you called and asked to speak to Jamie? That is very uncommon from my experience and apparently most others. If you emailed, I wonder if it got caught in a spam filter, which is why I suggest you call via phone. Rick

Mar 17, 2011 | 03:17 PM

Jinks

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Joined: Jul 2007

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From: Daytona, Fla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHog

Iclick, thank you very much for all the thorough information. Really helps put this thing into perspective. I did purchase my PCV from Fuelmoto, but have had little luck getting a map from them.

Try giving them a call. With all the activity generated from here, their time in R & D, & all the other requests they receive email is probably fairly low on their response ladder. I too had some difficulty getting an email response, but they're always polite & prompt when I take the time to place a call. I try to have the info they need handy so I don't take up much of their time 'cause they're busy.

Iclick is right about the PCV needing to be matched to your ECU flash, & dyno time for max performance. Of course FuelMoto can get you very close, & you can tweek for rideability yourself

Mar 17, 2011 | 03:49 PM

MrHog

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Joined: Jun 2009

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From: Central Ohio

Thanks for the replies. I haven't tried calling, yet. I have always sent Jaime a polite email and I know they are very busy. He answered my first 2 emails a couple years ago on two different sets of pipes I tried. I figured after the email last Summer with Rineharts and the CFRs last Fall and I didn't get a response, maybe he was tired of me switching pipes and always bugging him!