Oil cooler, does it help much?
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I like the HD Premium and see it as having a very good track record over the years, but if I were buying a cooler now I would seriously consider one with a fan installed. The Jagg unit looks like a winner although it is pricey at $380 MSRP. The fan will probably not last forever and will not likely have a lifetime warranty, so I would check the price of a replacement fan before buying and plan on replacing it every so often. I've had no luck with jury-rigging fans in that location, as the fans just don't last, even those rated IP-54 or IP-55 for water and dust resistance. That's a tough environment there--heat from the cooler, water, dust, road gunk, etc.
But to answer the OP's question, I think all TC engines should have oil coolers. Just my 2˘. I would expect a reduction of at least 20° in peak oil temps with one installed. In four summers of riding in S. LA mine will rarely hit 230° in traffic, but always stays at 200° or below as long as I'm moving >45mph, even in the 95-100° weather we've been having here in the past two months. I don't think it has exceeded about 220° yet this summer, actually.
But to answer the OP's question, I think all TC engines should have oil coolers. Just my 2˘. I would expect a reduction of at least 20° in peak oil temps with one installed. In four summers of riding in S. LA mine will rarely hit 230° in traffic, but always stays at 200° or below as long as I'm moving >45mph, even in the 95-100° weather we've been having here in the past two months. I don't think it has exceeded about 220° yet this summer, actually.
Last edited by iclick; Jul 17, 2011 at 08:48 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 11
From: El Paso, Texas
Oil coolers cool your oil, most of them do a pretty good job at cooling your oil, and some do a little better than others, but they don't cool your engine. EITMS is activated by CHT, cooling your oil will not prevent EITMS. I recently read an interesting factoid on an air cooled aircraft engine site that claimed an AFR enriched to 13.5:1 will produce the same CHT as stoich, but the EGT would be lower than stoich. Don't know if that is tested and proven for surface operated internal combustion engines, but it is pretty much in alignment with what I have observed while doing my own tuning for several years. To each their own, but I'm not going to run 12:1 AFR and blow 20% of my fuel out the tail pipe.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 9
From: Cherokee Co. Georgia
CHT & oil temp is 2 different issues. I believe that the best way to keep the CHT as low as possible would be with a parade fan and running richer AFR than stoich. I believe the TC engine is manufactured to withstand high temps, but for those of us who want piece of mind, the additions are well worth what we pay for them. As far as the original question, stock, my 2010 ultra oil temp use to climb to 260 on long rides on very hot days. Now with addition of the Ultra Cool unit I never see above 230 degree. I believe the fan assist helps a great deal. Replacement fan is only $27.00 and easy to install. I know because I broke the blades on mine because of my own stupidity. Synthetic oil is a must I believe, if these things are on your mind. CHT is a different issue all together. If you knew what they actually were it would prolly scare the crap out of you. The MOCO knows this & the product is made to take it without self destruction as long as common sense is used. Don't worry, Ride & Enjoy!
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
Before EPA all cars and motorcycles were !2.1 to 1. For WOT 11 to 1.
Stoich is 14.7 to one which is very lean.
I rode the first season with the stock ECM and yielded 40 mpg on trips. With the addition of the Cobra programmer last winter this years trips yielded 45 mpg on 87 octane.
Does anyone understand that a cooler engine produces more power? 12.1 afr yields a cooler charge into the motor combined with a cooler that is a winning situation. The engine will produce more power as the engine is run cooler until 160 degrees but below that does not yield more power but starts combustion problems. I guess that most are too young to remember that cars had 160 degree stats until EPA got involved and they keep going up.
I'm blessed to be 70 and have been involved with performance engines since the late 50's. Still am. There are three Corvettes and a Viper in my garage along with five motorcycles.
Does anyone understand that the lower the octane the more the gas fully burns? The cooler incoming charge and the proper use of gears prevents any pinging long before the ECM has to intervene.
It is impossible to argue against success. The recent 6,000 mile trip through the Rockies twice and the desert South West and Death Valley at temps from 105 to over 115 proves the setup period. End of story.
How many posts on this forum about pinging on 93 octane with some getting aviation or racing gas which HD clearly states in their manuals not to use?
Stoich is 14.7 to one which is very lean.
I rode the first season with the stock ECM and yielded 40 mpg on trips. With the addition of the Cobra programmer last winter this years trips yielded 45 mpg on 87 octane.
Does anyone understand that a cooler engine produces more power? 12.1 afr yields a cooler charge into the motor combined with a cooler that is a winning situation. The engine will produce more power as the engine is run cooler until 160 degrees but below that does not yield more power but starts combustion problems. I guess that most are too young to remember that cars had 160 degree stats until EPA got involved and they keep going up.
I'm blessed to be 70 and have been involved with performance engines since the late 50's. Still am. There are three Corvettes and a Viper in my garage along with five motorcycles.
Does anyone understand that the lower the octane the more the gas fully burns? The cooler incoming charge and the proper use of gears prevents any pinging long before the ECM has to intervene.
It is impossible to argue against success. The recent 6,000 mile trip through the Rockies twice and the desert South West and Death Valley at temps from 105 to over 115 proves the setup period. End of story.
How many posts on this forum about pinging on 93 octane with some getting aviation or racing gas which HD clearly states in their manuals not to use?
Last edited by lh4x4; Jul 17, 2011 at 01:47 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
We have had 18 straight days of triple digit temperatures. I have an H-D oil cooler on my '09 Ultra Classic. What I have noticed in extremely hot weather before the oil cooler was installed was the oil pressure didn't run as high at highway speed as it does now with the oil cooler.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 31
From: earth
Before EPA all cars and motorcycles were !2.1 to 1. For WOT 11 to 1
Stoich is 14.7 to one which is very lean.
I rode the first season with the stock ECM and yielded 40 mpg on trips. With the addition of the Cobra programmer last winter this years trips yielded 45 mpg on 87 octane.
Does anyone understand that a cooler engine produces more power? 12.1 afr yields a cooler charge into the motor combined with a cooler that is a winning situation. The engine will produce more power as the engine is run cooler until 160 degrees but below that does not yield more power but starts combustion problems. I guess that most are too young to remember that cars had 160 degree stats until EPA got involved and they keep going up.
I'm blessed to be 70 and have been involved with performance engines since the late 50's. Still am. There are three Corvettes and a Viper in my garage along with five motorcycles.
Does anyone understand that the lower the octane the more the gas fully burns? The cooler incoming charge and the proper use of gears prevents any pinging long before the ECM has to intervene.
It is impossible to argue against success. The recent 6,000 mile trip through the Rockies twice and the desert South West and Death Valley at temps from 105 to over 115 proves the setup period. End of story.
How many posts on this forum about pinging on 93 octane with some getting aviation or racing gas which HD clearly states in their manuals not to use?
Stoich is 14.7 to one which is very lean.
I rode the first season with the stock ECM and yielded 40 mpg on trips. With the addition of the Cobra programmer last winter this years trips yielded 45 mpg on 87 octane.
Does anyone understand that a cooler engine produces more power? 12.1 afr yields a cooler charge into the motor combined with a cooler that is a winning situation. The engine will produce more power as the engine is run cooler until 160 degrees but below that does not yield more power but starts combustion problems. I guess that most are too young to remember that cars had 160 degree stats until EPA got involved and they keep going up.
I'm blessed to be 70 and have been involved with performance engines since the late 50's. Still am. There are three Corvettes and a Viper in my garage along with five motorcycles.
Does anyone understand that the lower the octane the more the gas fully burns? The cooler incoming charge and the proper use of gears prevents any pinging long before the ECM has to intervene.
It is impossible to argue against success. The recent 6,000 mile trip through the Rockies twice and the desert South West and Death Valley at temps from 105 to over 115 proves the setup period. End of story.
How many posts on this forum about pinging on 93 octane with some getting aviation or racing gas which HD clearly states in their manuals not to use?
I have no doubt that you have more than your fair share of experience and knowledge in motorsports and performance, and Im sure the extra fuel you are dumping is doing a fine job at keeping your engine cool. Im just a 40 year old pup, dont have a dozen toys in my garage or a garage for that matter, but I too have been actively involved in performance modifications on everything I ever owned since I was a kid and as of recent I have been doing my own tuning with on board exhaust gas analysis data logging for almost three years; in regards to your claim to be running 12.1:1 AFR, in the dessert, on 87 octane, up hill, both ways, barefoot, into a head wind, and consistently getting 45 MPG, well I just cant subscribe to it cause I know what I have personally observed. I am definitely running 14.7:1 with an expanded cruise range map in my stage I 88, and I dont get 45 MPG. So, either your Cobra Fi2000r isnt actually doing what you would like to believe its doing for your AFR, you never accelerate hard or ride over 60 MPH, or you may be embellishing your fuel economy claim just a smidgen. Just for the record 14.7:1 is not lean, its stoich, or stoichiometric, the scientific term given to the chemically perfect air to fuel ratio in order to achieve complete combustion, for gasoline thats 14.7:1, anything higher is lean and anything lower is rich, it may not be conducive to a cool running v-twin but technically its not lean. Octane has nothing to do with a fuels ability to burn completely but rather its ability to burn in a controlled stable manner. It doesnt matter if you are running 85 octane or 100 octane, rich is rich, and if you are running 12.1:1 you are not getting a complete fuel burn. Higher octane is only necessary to run higher compression. I will agree that a cooler motor, or more importantly a cooler intake air charge will make more power, but your quoted 160 degree performance threshold temp is coolant temp in a water cooled motor and not particularly relative to air cooled v-twins, unless you would like to translate that optimum performance coolant temp into an optimum performance oil or cylinder head temp. Its not impossible to argue with the metrics that define success; You have elected to cool your motor by adding a lot of extra fuel and that is fine, its a technique, but its not the only technique, and depending on all the goals someone is trying to achieve its not necessarily the best technique. Unfortunately we now live in a world where the EPA does exist, and fuel cost is steadily rising. I suppose if I could afford 3 Vettes and a Viper I would probably just cool my motors with gasoline too.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 868
Likes: 1
From: Trenton,N.J.
The SE255 cam will generate some heat for sure.You should have your tune checked too.What tuning device are you running?? I run the Jagg 10 row oil cooler with the thermostat,& i have never had my EITMS kick in.I'm running more comp than most.I would definitley get an oil cooler though.If your bike is not tuned,I recommend you have it dyno tuned.
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Ultimate HDF Member
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The SE255 cam will generate some heat for sure.You should have your tune checked too.What tuning device are you running?? I run the Jagg 10 row oil cooler with the thermostat,& i have never had my EITMS kick in.I'm running more comp than most.I would definitley get an oil cooler though.If your bike is not tuned,I recommend you have it dyno tuned.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,586
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From: Honah Lee
Since I have never had that happen, what exactly do you mean the oil was done? Did it actually get dark and thicker?