Advice on EFI Controllers
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
FWIW....
The Delphi ECM in our bikes is a pretty impressive piece of technology. It's also pretty complex, and the fact of the matter is that you're not going to find a simple, inexpensive product to tune it. XIEDs won't do it, and neither will the TFI.
People talk about needing to "richen it up" when you add pipes or an air cleaner. That's not really accurate. By making the air flow in and out of the engine more efficiently, you're increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency (VE). In other words, you can pack more of the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. This is the adjustment that needs to be made, not the overall AFR/Lambda. Simply "richening it up" is masking, not solving the problem.
This is why the SERT, the TTS, and the Powervision are such great tools. They give you the ability to reprogram the ECM, and adjust what you need to, and none of them leave anything on the bike.
If you plan on doing only a Stage One, and don't have the time or the patience to tune the bike yourself, call Jamie at Fuel Moto and get one of his PCIIIs. Then you've got the wealth of experience he brings to the table to get your bike running right.
Otherwise, get a TTS and get tuning!
The Delphi ECM in our bikes is a pretty impressive piece of technology. It's also pretty complex, and the fact of the matter is that you're not going to find a simple, inexpensive product to tune it. XIEDs won't do it, and neither will the TFI.
People talk about needing to "richen it up" when you add pipes or an air cleaner. That's not really accurate. By making the air flow in and out of the engine more efficiently, you're increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency (VE). In other words, you can pack more of the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. This is the adjustment that needs to be made, not the overall AFR/Lambda. Simply "richening it up" is masking, not solving the problem.
This is why the SERT, the TTS, and the Powervision are such great tools. They give you the ability to reprogram the ECM, and adjust what you need to, and none of them leave anything on the bike.
If you plan on doing only a Stage One, and don't have the time or the patience to tune the bike yourself, call Jamie at Fuel Moto and get one of his PCIIIs. Then you've got the wealth of experience he brings to the table to get your bike running right.
Otherwise, get a TTS and get tuning!
Banned
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 101
Likes: 5
From: Kentucky
It is not important how they do it. The Xied's will make your bike run much better. If you are looking for a simple inexpensive way to get more fuel the Xied's will work. They do not technically increase the AFR but it is the same affect. The only difference in changing the AFR between the Xied's and a PCV is that with a PCV you can fine tune the fake AFR. The PCV costs a lot more and you will need a map to match your setup. Fuel Moto does not have a clue about anything American Custom, they are straight up guessing, but you might get lucky. Don't get hung up on everyone saying you need a tuner, that is not necessarily true. If you are not into fine tuning every little thing or if you don't have the money the Xied's are fine. Don't get talked into buying something you don't need.
I would definitely get the Xied's though, stock is far to lean. Even if you did not get the pipes and AC, I would still get the Xied's.
Having said all that, It could be with your setup you need to fine tune it to make it right, I don't know, but before buying a tuner I would try the Xied's. If they work for you, great, if not you can sell them on this forum and get a turner. But I would not automatically assume you need a tuner.
I would definitely get the Xied's though, stock is far to lean. Even if you did not get the pipes and AC, I would still get the Xied's.
Having said all that, It could be with your setup you need to fine tune it to make it right, I don't know, but before buying a tuner I would try the Xied's. If they work for you, great, if not you can sell them on this forum and get a turner. But I would not automatically assume you need a tuner.
Last edited by Mighty Nation; Sep 20, 2011 at 05:49 PM.
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
As you can see, you've gotten a few different opinions as to what you need or don't need.
If mediocre is fine, then go with the xied's or other fuel-only devices.
If not, go with a more full-featured tuner that actually accesses more then just fuel as your bike will benefit most from fine tuning the other tables (especially the VE).
Save yourself the time, money, and trouble by selecting a real tuner...the devices that "fool" the system may not work at all for your bike and just adds to the final expense of a true tuner.
Good luck!
If mediocre is fine, then go with the xied's or other fuel-only devices.
If not, go with a more full-featured tuner that actually accesses more then just fuel as your bike will benefit most from fine tuning the other tables (especially the VE).
Save yourself the time, money, and trouble by selecting a real tuner...the devices that "fool" the system may not work at all for your bike and just adds to the final expense of a true tuner.
Good luck!
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
So what does "stock is far too lean" mean anyway? Are there examples of stock motors be damaged by this "far too lean" of a condition?
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
A "real" tuner and a device that "fools" your tuner is the same thing (other than the HD marketing hype) once you're leaving the lower tier tuning products group. In your situation I'd take the advice to purchase a PCV product with a map from FuelMoto that will get you down down the road to better performance and a cooler running engine. Later when you upgrade with higher modifications, you can get what you pay for with a dyno tune. And you won't be buying these things twice.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
A product that does nothing but add fuel only accomplishes two things.
Leaning out your wallet and enriching the seller's.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 101
Likes: 5
From: Kentucky
It's been repeated so much, people believe it's true. I run my entire map (other than idle, WOT, and 4500rpm and up) in closed-loop. My bike runs like a champ, gets great mileage, and runs cool.
A product that does nothing but add fuel only accomplishes two things.
Leaning out your wallet and enriching the seller's.
A product that does nothing but add fuel only accomplishes two things.
Leaning out your wallet and enriching the seller's.
You got pipes and you got an AC now it can breath but it is still hot, so what makes the bike run cooler? Changing the AFR. The Xied's do that, from 14.7 to 13.8. Lean is hot, rich is not. Try making a biker cooler with a 14.7 AFR. Good luck with that.
acd118 I'm not saying a tuner is not better, I have one myself, a TTS. What I am saying is there are a lot of people who do just fine with only Xied's, if you are not into tuners for whatever reason give the Xied's a try. Also people always mention Fuel Moto. Give them a call and ask them what maps they have specifically for American Custom Exhaust, their answer is none, nothing at all. Until a year ago (or so) they never even heard of them. So do not count on getting the correct map for your system from them. I'm sure they will tell you they have one that will work, but that is not the truth, they will just keep pushing maps at you until you give up and dump the PCV. That happened to a friend of mine, just that way. So if you do get a tuner, find a good local tuner and let them help you.
Last edited by Mighty Nation; Sep 20, 2011 at 06:53 PM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 48
From: WI
FWIW....
The Delphi ECM in our bikes is a pretty impressive piece of technology. It's also pretty complex, and the fact of the matter is that you're not going to find a simple, inexpensive product to tune it. XIEDs won't do it, and neither will the TFI.
People talk about needing to "richen it up" when you add pipes or an air cleaner. That's not really accurate. By making the air flow in and out of the engine more efficiently, you're increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency (VE). In other words, you can pack more of the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. This is the adjustment that needs to be made, not the overall AFR/Lambda. Simply "richening it up" is masking, not solving the problem.
This is why the SERT, the TTS, and the Powervision are such great tools. They give you the ability to reprogram the ECM, and adjust what you need to, and none of them leave anything on the bike.
If you plan on doing only a Stage One, and don't have the time or the patience to tune the bike yourself, call Jamie at Fuel Moto and get one of his PCIIIs. Then you've got the wealth of experience he brings to the table to get your bike running right.
Otherwise, get a TTS and get tuning!
The Delphi ECM in our bikes is a pretty impressive piece of technology. It's also pretty complex, and the fact of the matter is that you're not going to find a simple, inexpensive product to tune it. XIEDs won't do it, and neither will the TFI.
People talk about needing to "richen it up" when you add pipes or an air cleaner. That's not really accurate. By making the air flow in and out of the engine more efficiently, you're increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency (VE). In other words, you can pack more of the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. This is the adjustment that needs to be made, not the overall AFR/Lambda. Simply "richening it up" is masking, not solving the problem.
This is why the SERT, the TTS, and the Powervision are such great tools. They give you the ability to reprogram the ECM, and adjust what you need to, and none of them leave anything on the bike.
If you plan on doing only a Stage One, and don't have the time or the patience to tune the bike yourself, call Jamie at Fuel Moto and get one of his PCIIIs. Then you've got the wealth of experience he brings to the table to get your bike running right.
Otherwise, get a TTS and get tuning!
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
In reality, 14.7 is leaner then 12.0 but richer then 17.0. But changes in timing (even at 14.7) can result in cooler or hotter temps too.
Be it either AFR or Lambda, those "magic" switching numbers are not all that ends all. It's not as simple as that and sometimes just dumping in fuel can result in poor performance and even damage.