103 vs 96 heat
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
...Can I retain the stock head pipes and remove the cat? If yes, I'd simply go forward with my plans for the Monster Oval slip ons. Also, does removing the cat require install of a tuner ? I assume a tuner is the only way to richen the mixture on an EFI bike - so that contributes to the stupid question logic. Just trying to not spend dollars that don't add value. I'm less interested in more power and more interested in heat and sound. Estimated cost to do a stage 1 upgrade ?? Thanks for the help
Yes, many have not experienced problems once the cat is gutted, but others have and finding issues after the fact may become expensive and time consuming to fix.
So, may I respectfully suggest you put some significant miles on the stock setup before making any changes? You might find the stock form meets your needs without many unnecessary dollars spent.
Good luck!
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 527
Likes: 42
From: Sequim, WA
Let me start off by saying everyone is different and really no 2 bikes are exactly alike..Some people can tolerate the heat from a stock bike with no problem,while the guy next door cant take it and complains of burns and heat issues from the right side..Some folks say that removing the cat helps with the heat and the next guy will tell you that there is not a noticeable difference..I can tell you that 2 things will work for the heat problems..Add more fuel and to put a barrier between you and the motor especially while sitting in traffic..We make a heat shield/crotch cooler that works very well,and it can be customized if you like..Just do a search on our crotch cooler,and if we can help you out just let us know..Thanks..
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
XIED'S from Nightrider WORK. I replaced mine...only because I changed out the cams and more on my bike later on.
Anyone who is looking to cool that puppy down...have no fear....... Steve's stuff
(nightrider) flat WORKS.
~Joe
Anyone who is looking to cool that puppy down...have no fear....... Steve's stuff
(nightrider) flat WORKS.
~Joe
Cruiser
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 121
Likes: 1
I traded my 2011 FLHR for a 2012 Road Glide Custom. I can tell you right now that the 103 does get hotter than the 96. I found that on the 3rd day I had it. I got stuck on the Interstate in traffic. I had to pull over from the heat burning my legs. I had the Heat Deflectors for looks on my FLHR. I took them off when I traded it. Was gonna sell them until that night. The next morning, I put those bad boys on and haven't felt any heat since.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes: 2
From: webster, ny
Break-in is hot
I know this thread is old, but many people are concerned about heat issues. I have bought 3 new Harleys over the years, different motors, but same heat issues. During break-in the motor runs very hot. In fact, so hot I can smell paint burning. The motors seem to smooth out around the 500 mile mark. To control the temp even better run synthetic oil at the 1000 mile check up. And try not to ride in heavy traffic on days when the temp is over 100 degrees outside. I have never had any "heat problems", and all three motors were stock, although I have burned my leg on the pipe a few times. My 2-cents.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
I have a 10 Ultra with the TC 96, a 12 RGC with a TC 103 and a 12 RGC CVO with the TC 110.
I get 50 mpg with all three. Gasoline has 115,000 BTU's/gal. In 50 miles all three have generated 115,000 BTU's of heat which is dissipated by the fins, oil cooler and all parts of the bike that incur heat soak. But a lot of that heat goes out the exhaust also.
Therefore none of them run hotter than the other. PERIOD! End of story.
It is a myth that one is hotter than the other.
If it is not true, get an infrared temp gun and post a scientific study of the heat ranges of the motors under identical conditions.
Opinions are like rear ends. Everyone has one. Lets have some quantitative data for once.
I get 50 mpg with all three. Gasoline has 115,000 BTU's/gal. In 50 miles all three have generated 115,000 BTU's of heat which is dissipated by the fins, oil cooler and all parts of the bike that incur heat soak. But a lot of that heat goes out the exhaust also.
Therefore none of them run hotter than the other. PERIOD! End of story.
It is a myth that one is hotter than the other.
If it is not true, get an infrared temp gun and post a scientific study of the heat ranges of the motors under identical conditions.
Opinions are like rear ends. Everyone has one. Lets have some quantitative data for once.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,216
Likes: 224
From: Glendale AZ
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: nashville
I have a 10 Ultra with the TC 96, a 12 RGC with a TC 103 and a 12 RGC CVO with the TC 110.
I get 50 mpg with all three. Gasoline has 115,000 BTU's/gal. In 50 miles all three have generated 115,000 BTU's of heat which is dissipated by the fins, oil cooler and all parts of the bike that incur heat soak. But a lot of that heat goes out the exhaust also.
Therefore none of them run hotter than the other. PERIOD! End of story.
It is a myth that one is hotter than the other.
If it is not true, get an infrared temp gun and post a scientific study of the heat ranges of the motors under identical conditions.
Opinions are like rear ends. Everyone has one. Lets have some quantitative data for once.
I get 50 mpg with all three. Gasoline has 115,000 BTU's/gal. In 50 miles all three have generated 115,000 BTU's of heat which is dissipated by the fins, oil cooler and all parts of the bike that incur heat soak. But a lot of that heat goes out the exhaust also.
Therefore none of them run hotter than the other. PERIOD! End of story.
It is a myth that one is hotter than the other.
If it is not true, get an infrared temp gun and post a scientific study of the heat ranges of the motors under identical conditions.
Opinions are like rear ends. Everyone has one. Lets have some quantitative data for once.
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: nashville
this from harley tech talk
Good question, and I've wondered about this myself. For years I've heard that decreasing AFR (richer) reduces engine heat, and I understand the reasons why, but I've run some tests on my bike ('07 FLHX with Power Vision and SE255 cams) and have found that using different AFRs (13.0, 13.5, and 14.6) don't make much difference in FCHT and no measurable differences in OT on my bike. Two years ago when I had a PCV installed I could switch maps on the fly and in identical conditions I saw only a 7° decrease moving from a map that was 14.6 to one with 13.5 AFR in the cruise range. Engine Temp. (ET) was obtained from an LCD-200 through the J-1850 port (ECM). The conditions were a 90° day and moderate highway cruising with no stop-and-go situations. Perhaps city riding would've shown a greater difference, but I didn't test there since conditions would be difficult to duplicate.
About two months ago I accidentally mislabeled my normal "mileage" tune (14.5 in the cruise range) and used my rich Power Vision tune (13.0 across the board) on a long ride. FCHT (ET from ECM) and OT were no different than I normally see with the leaner tune, which was another mostly highway ride. FWIW gas mileage was 6 mpg lower than I normally get on that type of ride.
Since leaner AFRs will cause EGT's to rise, I'm wondering if most of the heat reduction people notice is radiated heat from the exhaust which isn't being retained internally. You would think that since higher EGT's will also affect CHT, why is my FCHT only a bit lower with richer AFR's, or is most of the heat going out the exhaust and radiated from there? In neither of these two situations did I feel any difference in engine heat one way or the other. I have mid-frame deflectors installed which do help keep some heat off my legs. Maybe FLTRI can comment further from his experience since he brought up the radiated-heat issue earlier.
Good question, and I've wondered about this myself. For years I've heard that decreasing AFR (richer) reduces engine heat, and I understand the reasons why, but I've run some tests on my bike ('07 FLHX with Power Vision and SE255 cams) and have found that using different AFRs (13.0, 13.5, and 14.6) don't make much difference in FCHT and no measurable differences in OT on my bike. Two years ago when I had a PCV installed I could switch maps on the fly and in identical conditions I saw only a 7° decrease moving from a map that was 14.6 to one with 13.5 AFR in the cruise range. Engine Temp. (ET) was obtained from an LCD-200 through the J-1850 port (ECM). The conditions were a 90° day and moderate highway cruising with no stop-and-go situations. Perhaps city riding would've shown a greater difference, but I didn't test there since conditions would be difficult to duplicate.
About two months ago I accidentally mislabeled my normal "mileage" tune (14.5 in the cruise range) and used my rich Power Vision tune (13.0 across the board) on a long ride. FCHT (ET from ECM) and OT were no different than I normally see with the leaner tune, which was another mostly highway ride. FWIW gas mileage was 6 mpg lower than I normally get on that type of ride.
Since leaner AFRs will cause EGT's to rise, I'm wondering if most of the heat reduction people notice is radiated heat from the exhaust which isn't being retained internally. You would think that since higher EGT's will also affect CHT, why is my FCHT only a bit lower with richer AFR's, or is most of the heat going out the exhaust and radiated from there? In neither of these two situations did I feel any difference in engine heat one way or the other. I have mid-frame deflectors installed which do help keep some heat off my legs. Maybe FLTRI can comment further from his experience since he brought up the radiated-heat issue earlier.